ARC TBC - Barbara Roberts, Penmachno / Llanrwst, North Wales

[Samantha2012]

Hi there,
I am trying to trace my gand mothers mothers family.
I have done fairly well on her husbands mothers side and really well on my other grandparents but i really have hit a brick wall here.

My grandmothers name was Nella Roberts (maybe Ellen or Nellie) 1914-02. I have 2 birth records, one for an Ellen and one for a Nellie on the right month in the right area. Her marriage,death record and grave stone say Nella.

Her mother was Barbara Roberts and we believe she was unmarried as Nella did not know her father. She didn't like to talk about it as it just wasn't done then.
She had an elder sister called Ann/Annie (B1908?) who lived on to move to Cricceth and worked with antiques or at an antiques shop in the late eighties at least.I have found no records of birth/death as I'm not sure of her married name but she had a whole bunch of children who i have a few forenames for.
She had a brother Richard either a couple of years older who died around the age of 13 from the flu epidemic after the war? (Nella was young at the time so might not be quite right) I have found no records of birth/death

When Nella was little she was brought up by her grandparents on a farm which i believe was in Penmachno. I believe her surname Roberts was her mothers surname and grandparents surname as as far as we know her father is unknown.

She and Richard then went to live with her mother and her new step father Bob or Robert around 1920 i think in Nant y Rhiw, Llanrwst. Her step father worked on a farm or was a Shepard but i do not know his name. I do know he and Barbara had two more daughters a

Nella 1914 (deceased who married Thomas Owen, moved to Mochdre, became a baker in Rhos on Sea and had six children

This part is what my grandmother passed down to me but without surnames or where she lived i can't carry on my family tree through Barbaras mother and father and so on which is rather frustrating!! My eldest auntie thinks that Nella told her that Barbara had brothers and sisters in Penmachno.

Barbara may or not have married Bob/Robert but from what Nella remembered was buried in Penmachno but unsure when so i was thinking of going to visit the grave yards in that area and contacting the chapel but with out dates or surname at death would i be able to do this?

I have traced a Hugh Parry Roberts in Penmachno but lived in the rectory or old rectory and their census reads lots of children at different times which 'could' be the grand parents of Nella as there was a Barbara there when she was a small child. There seems to be a lot of children though through the years though? This is my dead end as without knowing more about Barbara and the lack of census from 1911 i really do not know where to go.

Any help or ideas would really be appreciated. I thought over the past year i had done really well with the other branches of mine and my partners families but Nella was my closest grandparent, she dies ten years ago this year when i was 21 at uni and wished i had got to talk to her more as a grown up than a grandchild.
I feel like i am rambling but I've tried to type everything i know!

Thank you again
Samantha

[MarkCDodd]

Do you have these birth certificates?

Births Jun 1914
ROBERTS Ellen Roberts Llanrwst 11b 609
ROBERTS Ellen Roberts Llanrwst 11b 603

[Northern Lass]

So have you got the marriage certif of your G.mother what does it say for father anything on it
and wits ....names?

did you actually get the birth certifs for Ellen what does it say which one matches a mother Barbara Roberts?

Do you have Barbara on the 1911? with dau ann?

[MarkCDodd]

This is the only Hugh Parry Roberts I can see in Carnarvon (the registration district for Penmachno and Llanwrst).

But he is too young to be Ellen/Nellas parent or grandparent.
.
1911 census transcription details for: 8 Brynderwen Terrace

National Archive Reference:

RG14PN34421 RG78PN1989 RD630 SD1 ED9 SN73
Reg. District: Carnarvon
Sub District: Llandwro
Parish: Llanllyfni
Enum. District: 9
Address: 8 Brynderwen Terrace
County: Carnarvonshire
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
ROBERTS, Ellis Penteulu Priod M 40 1871 Labrwr Mewn Chwarel Lechi Carnarvonshire Plwyf Llangwnadl
ROBERTS, Ellen Gwraig Priod F 41 1870 Llangian
ROBERTS, Hugh Parry Mb Sengl M 20 1891 Chwarelwr Llechi Llangian
ROBERTS, Robert Griffith Mb M 7 1904 Llanllyfni
ROBERTS, Jane Merch F 5 1906 Llanllyfni

[MarkCDodd]

Which one of these Hugh P Roberts is the one you were tracing.

Deaths.

ROBERTS Hugh P Wales Caernarvonshire, Caernarvon 1919 Age 27
ROBERTS Hugh P Wales Caernarvonshire, Caernarvon 1923 Age 48
ROBERTS Hugh P Wales Caernarvonshire, Caernarvon 1944 Age 77
ROBERTS Hugh Parry Wales Caernarvonshire, Caernarvon 1970 (Not his one...he was born 1920).

[MarkCDodd]

We have an Ann of the right age living with a Hugh in 1911.

Hugh's occupation is Quarryman.

Ann is not designated as his grand daughter.

1911 census transcription details for: Glynafon Terrace Waenfawr Carnarvon

National Archive Reference:

RG14PN34456 RG78PN1991 RD630 SD3 ED9 SN71
Reg. District: Carnarvon
Sub District: Carnarvon
Parish: Waenfawr
Enum. District: 9
Address: Glynafon Terrace Waenfawr Carnarvon
County: Carnarvonshire
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
ROBERTS, Hugh Penteulu Priod M 30 1881 Chwarelwr Carnarvon Waenfawr
ROBERTS, Laura C Gwraig Priod F 28 1883 Denson Sir Ddinbych
ROBERTS, Annie Ll Merch F 3 1908 Carnarvon Waenfair

[Samantha2012]

Hi,
Thank you for so many responses in so little time, you've all made such an effort to find fact in my rambles.

MarkCDodd =I only have the online records not the actual certificates at the moment as i was unsure which to go for.
Ellen Roberts
ROBERTS Ellen Roberts Llanrwst 11b 609
ROBERTS Ellen Roberts Llanrwst 11b 603
and a long shot of
ROBERTS Nellie Roberts St Asaph 11b 515 (which is a long shot as St Asaph is a 20 minute drive down an express way!)

The Barbara that i found and the Hugh:
1891
Barbara Roberts
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1888
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Hugh P Roberts (Quarry Labourer) born abt 1865 (age 26)
Mother's Name: Mary Roberts (Domestic Duties)
Gender: Female
Where born: Penmachno, Caernarvonshire, Wales
Piece: 4634
Folio: 18
Page Number: 11
8 Pen Y Waen, Penmachno.

1901 The family are still there but no Barbara at 13?
Then i can find a servant in Penmachno Barbara J Roberts
Age in 1901: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1888
Relation: Servant
Piece: 5245
Folio: 35
Page Number: 8

Could possibly be the same Barbara ironcly working for another Roberts family and weirdly there is a 1yo Annie as daughter of the head of that family.

Northern Lass = I am certain of the death and marriage records online so i am in the midst of getting the actual marriage certificate but undecided on the birth certificate but the marriage one might have a clue?

[Northern Lass]

You could contact the local registry office and say you only want the certif if the mother is such and such

[MarkCDodd]

1891 census transcription details for: 8, Pen Y Waen, Bennar View, Penmachno

Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
ROBERTS, Hugh P Head Married M 26 1865 State Qaurry Labourer Penmachno, Carnarvonshire
ROBERTS, Mary Wife Married F 24 1867 Domestic Duties Ruthin, Denbighshire
ROBERTS, Barbara Daughter F 3 1888 Penmachno, Carnarvonshire
ROBERTS, Kate Daughter F 1 1890 Penmachno, Carnarvonshire


1901 census transcription details for: Tainy Foel, Penmachno (Carnarvon), Penmachno

Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
ROBERTS, Hugh P Head Married M 38 1863 Rockman In Slate Quarry Penmachno, Carnarvonshire
ROBERTS, Mary Wife Married F 37 1864 Eglwys Wen, Denbighshire
ROBERTS, David R Son Single M 6 1895 Penmachno, Carnarvonshire
ROBERTS, Margaret A Daughter Single F 9 1892 Penmachno, Carnarvonshire
ROBERTS, Mary L Daughter Single F 2 1899 Miner Ab Quarry Penmachno, Carnarvonshire

1901 census transcription details for: Bryn Terion, Penmachno (Carnarvon), Penmachno

Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
ROBERTS, John E Head Married M 40 1861 Slate Quarryman Llanrwst, Denbighshire
ROBERTS, Mary E Wife Married F 34 1867 Penmachno, Carnarvonshire
ROBERTS, Evan Son Single M 9 1892 Penmachno, Carnarvonshire
ROBERTS, Ellen J Daughter Single F 4 1897 Penmachno, Carnarvonshire
ROBERTS, Annie Daughter Single F 1 1900 Penmachno, Carnarvonshire
ROBERTS, Owen Father-In-Law Widower M 73 1828 Retired Farmer Penmachno, Carnarvonshire
ROBERTS, Barbara J Servant Single F 13 1888 Servant & Attending School Penmachno,

[MarkCDodd]

Looks like the John E Roberts that Barbara is working for in 1901 married a Mary E Roberts as his father in law in the census is an Owen Roberts.

Not sure of her sister Kate's whereabouts in 1901 but this looks like her in 1911 working as a maid in yet another Roberts household.

David Roberts is a farmer.

1911 census transcription details for: Blaen Eiddu Isaf Eidda Yspytty

National Archive Reference:

RG14PN34198 RG78PN1976 RD624 SD3 ED4 SN1
Reg. District: Llanrwst
Sub District: Yspytty
Parish: Eidda
Enum. District: 4
Address: Blaen Eiddu Isaf Eidda Yspytty
County: Denbighshire
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
ROBERTS, David Penteulu Priod M 46 1865 Ffarmwr Carnarfon Yspytty
ROBERTS, Ann Jane Gwraig Priod F 47 1864 Carnarfon Yspytty
ROBERTS, John Mab Sengl M 20 1891 Mab Ffarm Gweithisar Ffarm Carnarfon Yspytty
ROBERTS, Kate Morwyn Sengl F 20 1891 Morwyn Gyffredin Carnarfon Penmachno
WILLIAMS, John Gweithiwr Sengl M 45 1866 Gweithiwr Ar Ffarm Carnarfon Bethesda
ROBERTS, Maggie Merch F 6 1905 Carnarfon Yspytty

[Samantha2012]

Thanks you It does seem to fit.
Barbaras Roberts seems to be the only one in the area at the time. The birth date of 1888 doesnt seem unreasonable to have a child in 1914 and one a few years earlier.
I don't know why i don't feel more convinced but i feel better after you guys looking at it and coming up with very simular results.

The next block is where on earth did she go after that! I'm thinking she married in 1920 or so to Bob/Robert (no surname) and lived in Nant Y Rhiw where they had at least 2 children togther 'Sal' and Jane'.
I don't think i can track her grave in Penmachno (which i assured that it is... somethere) without her married name (if they did get married) or when she died.

Hugh P Roberts does seem the likeliest father of Barbara and tracing him futher on first inspection seems quite good with the paper trail i just don't know why it doesn't feel right?

[BC Wench]

Is this still a Brickwall, or have you solved it?

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