Help to find Henry Simmons

[blueangel]

My mum has the marriage certificate and it states his father's name as Albert Alfred Simmons, but no mother's maiden name. I can't find an Albert Alfred, but, have found an Albert James - not sure if it is right or not. Julie.

Can you post the full marriage details,

Henry Simmons married Annie Elizabeth Wraight on 13th April 1918 at Sheldwich Parish Church (Kent). He was a bachelor and she a spinster. He was aged 30 and she was 24. His father named as Albert Alfred Simmons (I believe this to be his younger brother) occupation I think is Printer - but could say private - not sure and her father named as Frederick Wraight, occupation Farm Labourer. Witnesses Alfred John Parker and Emily Jane Parker. Henry was in 1st Air Mechanics, Royal Flying Corp at the time of the marriage.

I don't know why he put Albert Alfred as his father as his father would still have been alive in 1918. I believe his father was known as James.

blueangel

[Jimmy]

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906 .

David Owen Arminger Arminger.
Record Type: Baptism.
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1880.
Baptism Date: 13 Jun 1880.
Mother's Name: Florence Arminger. Servant.
Parish or Poor Law Union: Haggerston St Chad.
Borough: Hackney.
Register Type: Parish Registers.

29 Gopsal St.

[Jimmy]

1901. Mile End Old Town.
Albert J Simmons 39. Printers, warehouseman.
Florence Simmons 42. Wife. St Pancras, London.
Henry Simmons 12. Son. St George in the East, London.
Albert A Simmons 8. St George in the East, London.
William J Simmons 5. Son. Mile End, London.
George A Simmons 2. Son. Mile End, London.

Fathers occupation fits with this one then. I still can't see a birth for Henry Arminger, or a marriage for Florence to Albert Simmons.

[Jimmy]

Have you got this,

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921.
Henry Arminger. Bachelor. Dyer.
Age: Full Age.
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1853.
Spouse Name: Emma Headland. Spinster.
Record Type: Marriage.
Event Date: 27 Aug 1853.
Parish: St Pancras Parish Chapel.
Borough: Camden.
Father Name: Robert Arminger. Dyer.
Spouse Father Name: Thomas Headland. Dead.
Register Type: Parish Register.

[blueangel]

Hi Jimmy

I can't believe how fast you work - phew!

As I said, I found my grandfather Henry's school admission records under Henry Simmons d.o.b. 16.6.1888. His army admission forms stated that he was 17 years and 3 months old and were signed in September 1906 - this would have made his year of birth 1889. I don't know which one is correct, but would suspect it is the school admission records.

Were birth certificates used as proof of age for enlistment into the army or anything else?

Henry had 4 brothers: David Owen Arminger (later just David Owen), Albert Alfred Simmons, William James Simmons and George Alexander Simmons (who I believe died as an infant)

David Owen Arminger was baptised and so was Albert Alfred and George Alexander, so why not Henry and William?

We were always told that Henry was Florence's illegitimate son and that Albert James accepted him as his own. We have no idea who David's father was.

blueangel

[peterd]

1901. Mile End Old Town.
Albert J Simmons 39. Printers, warehouseman.
Florence Simmons 42. Wife. St Pancras, London.
Henry Simmons 12. Son. St George in the East, London.
Albert A Simmons 8. St George in the East, London.
William J Simmons 5. Son. Mile End, London.
George A Simmons 2. Son. Mile End, London.

Fathers occupation fits with this one then. I still can't see a birth for Henry Arminger, or a marriage for Florence to Albert Simmons.

Albert j will proberly be albert james

[peterd]

Witnesses Alfred John Parker and Emily Jane Parker

poss

Marriages Mar 1913

Newman Emily J Parker Faversham 2a 1695
Parker Alfred J Newman Faversham 2a 1695

[blueangel]

Witnesses Alfred John Parker and Emily Jane Parker

poss

Marriages Mar 1913

Newman Emily J Parker Faversham 2a 1695
Parker Alfred J Newman Faversham 2a 1695

Thanks peterd

I never thought to look the marriage up. I'm sure it is most likely them as my Grandmother Annie was born and raised in Faversham. Maybe they were neighbours.

blueangel

[peterd]

If this is the right one it says she married about 1887,

1911. 65 Hamilton Road, Bethnal Green E.
Albert James Simmons 49. Printers, warehouseman. London, United Kingdom.
Florence Simmons 52. London, United Kingdom.
William James Simmons 15. Son. VAN GUARD. London, United Kingdom.

Married 24 years, 4 children, 1 died.

1901. Mile End Old Town.
Albert J Simmons 39. Printers, warehouseman.
Florence Simmons 42. Wife. St Pancras, London.
Henry Simmons 12. Son. St George in the East, London.
Albert A Simmons 8. St George in the East, London.
William J Simmons 5. Son. Mile End, London.
George A Simmons 2. Son. Mile End, London.

1891. St George in the East.
Florence Arminger 52. Widow. could be 32. St Pancras, London.
Minnie Arminger 21. sister in law. Old Ford, London. should be sister.
David Arminger 11. Son. Hanton, London.
Henry Arminger 2. Son. St George in the East.
Elenor Arminger 5. St George in the East.
Bessie Arminger 1. St George in the East.


1871. Vine Cottage, Hackney.
Henry Arminger 43. Dyer. Reading, Berkshire.
Emma E Arminger 46. Caverswall, Middlesex.
Emily Arminger 17. St Pancras, London.
Florence E Arminger 12. St Pancras, London.
Ellen Arminger 11. St Pancras, London.
Minney Arminger 1. Old Ford, Middlesex.

1861.
Henry Arminger 33. Dyer. Reading, Berkshire.
Emma Arminger 34. Clerkingwell, Middlesex,
Elizabeth Arminger 6. Dau. St Pancras, London.
Emma L Arminger 5. Son. St Pancras, London.
Floria H Arminger 2. Dau. St Pancras, London.
Elenor Arminger 9 Months. Dau. St Pancras, London.
Emma Harvey 23. Lodger.

missing 1881 with david granson


david 1881 census ?

1881; 39 Weymouth Terr, St Leonards

Emma E. Arminger 51 Dyers Water Finisher, Clerkenwell
Eleanor Arminger 21 Camden Town
Miriam Arminger 11 Old Ford
David Arminger 1 gson Shoreditch


there is a poss that owen is david father first name or surname wonder if he on his marriage cert ?

[peterd]

poss sister marriage

Marriages Dec 1891
Allsopp George John Bethnal Green 1c 394
Arminger Minnie Miriam D Bethnal Green 1c 394
Redhalls Charles Jasper Bethnal Green 1c 394
Risley Susannah Bethnal Green 1c 394

[peterd]

1891 Southampton st, Clerkenwell

Joseph Simmons 59 wid Aston Abbots, Buckinghamshire
Albert J Simmons 29 single printer st lukes
William C Simmons 18 carman, st lukes

[Jimmy]

poss sister marriage

Marriages Dec 1891
Allsopp George John Bethnal Green 1c 394
Arminger Minnie Miriam D Bethnal Green 1c 394
Redhalls Charles Jasper Bethnal Green 1c 394
Risley Susannah Bethnal Green 1c 394

Minnie Miriam Davis Arminger. Spinster. 71 White St.
Age: 23.
Charles Jasper Redhalls. Bachelor. Dyer. 134 Gossett St.
Age: 35.
Marriage.
Event Date: 25 Dec 1891.
Parish: Bethnal Green St James the Great.
Borough: Tower Hamlets.
Father Name: Harry Arminger. Deceased.
Spouse Father Name: Charles Redhalls.
Register Type: Parish Register. Porter.

Both signed their names.

Witnesses,
Charles Redhalls.
Florence Henrietta Arminger.

[blueangel]

poss sister marriage

Marriages Dec 1891
Allsopp George John Bethnal Green 1c 394
Arminger Minnie Miriam D Bethnal Green 1c 394
Redhalls Charles Jasper Bethnal Green 1c 394
Risley Susannah Bethnal Green 1c 394

Minnie Miriam Davis Arminger. Spinster. 71 White St.
Age: 23.
Charles Jasper Redhalls. Bachelor. Dyer. 134 Gossett St.
Age: 35.
Marriage.
Event Date: 25 Dec 1891.
Parish: Bethnal Green St James the Great.
Borough: Tower Hamlets.
Father Name: Harry Arminger. Deceased.
Spouse Father Name: Charles Redhalls.
Register Type: Parish Register. Porter.

Both signed their names.

Witnesses,
Charles Redhalls.
Florence Henrietta Arminger.

Hi Jimmy

Thank you for finding those details. As I am unable to trace my grandfather's birth at the moment, I am trying to add as many details about his mother Florence's family as I can in the hope that something more about him may turn up.

I have been unable to trace any census records for Minnie and Charles Redhalls after they married. I found one for Minnie and Edward Redhalls in 1911, but not for Minnie and Charles. Also I can't seem to find any death listed for her.

I have found another marriage for Minnie M Redhalls to Edward A Major Dec Qtr 1921 in Bethnal Green. This would indicate that she married again, but I can find no record of Charles Redhall's death anywhere.

I have found a death for Minnie M Major Dec Qtr 1953 Bethnal Green aged 83 which would work out perfectly for Minnie Arminger.

Can you help?

Many Thanks

blueangel

[Jimmy]

There is this,
Jessie Ninnie Redhalls.
Record Type: Baptism.
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1892. August 15 1892.
Baptism Date: 24 Aug 1892.
Father's Name: Charles Jessie Redhalls. Jasper on in image, Dyers assistant.
Mother's Name: Ninry Redhalls. looks like Minny.
Parish or Poor Law Union: London Docks St Peter.
Borough: Tower Hamlets.
Register Type: Parish Registers.

Name: Emma Agnes Redhall.
Record Type: Baptism.
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1894. 9 Mar. 1894.
Baptism Date: 24 Mar 1894.
Father's Name: Charles Jasper Redhall. Dyer.
Mother's Name: Minna Redhall.
Parish or Poor Law Union: Limehouse St Luke.
Borough: Tower Hamlets.
Register Type: Parish Registers.

10 Edinburgh Rd.

1901. Bromley, London.
Charles Redhal 49. Writer.
Mennie Redhal 31.
Bessie Redhal 11.
Agnes Redhal 7.

All born Bishopsgate, London.


1911.
Edward Redhalls 49.
Minnie Redhalls 42.
Agnes Redhalls 17.
Edwin Redhalls 0.

[Jimmy]

1901. Bromley, London.
Charles Redhal 49. Writer.
Mennie Redhal 31.
Bessie Redhal 11.
Agnes Redhal 7.

All born Bishopsgate, London.

It looks to me as though Charles changed is name to Edward, I can't see an Edward Redalls in any other census's.

William Thomas Griffiths. Bachelor. Brush maker. 65 Hamilton Rd.
Age: 20.
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1890.
Spouse Name: Bessie Redhalls. Spinster. 59 Hamilton Rd.
Spouse Age: 20.
Record Type: Marriage.
Event Date: 27 Mar 1910.
Parish: Bethnal Green St Barnabas.
Borough: Tower Hamlets.
Father Name: William Griffiths.
Spouse Father Name: Edward Redhalls. Steveadore..
Register Type: Parish Register.

Both signed.

Witnesses,
Albert James ????? could be Simmons.
Agnes Redhalls.

Same address in 1911 as Bessie.

1911. 59 Hamilton Rd, Grove Rd, Bethnal Green.
Edward Redhalls 49. Labour Dock.
Minnie Redhalls 42.
Agnes Redhalls 17.
Edwin Redhalls 0.

All born Bethnal Green.