GREINER - German or French?

[Lee]

Hi all,

I am very interested to discover the origins of my surname - GREINER.
I've always thought it was German (I've been to Germany and the name is in common use there, and it sounds German!)

However, recently I've discovered that my great-grandfather Oscar GREINER - born in the Alsace - considered himself to be a Frenchman. Obviously, today the Alsace is in France, but I think that at the time of Oscar's birth it would have been a part of Germany (1871-1918). I cannot find the information I need to confirm his date or place or birth and this is the advice I'm looking for here.

Oscar came to England certainly before 1915 ( I know this as he was working on-board the Lusitania when it was sunk by a German U-boat - he survived! ) and he married and died here (I've found records on GenesReunited to support this).

Can anyone advise me on where to look for birth records in France/ Germany/ German occupied France around the year 1900?

Thanks for your help

Lee

[gardener]

Hi (and welcome to the site).

Is that him as a chef in 1915, on the Cameronia?

Is that his marriage in 1917 in London? If you have that certificate then perhaps you have his father's name and occupation? That would give you another person to search for in France. Hope some one can advise you about how to do that.

[gardener]

I see on Ancestry that they have a list from 1872, 84% of the people who chose to declare that they wished to retain their French nationality. So there may be some chance of finding Oscar's father on there?

[Lee]

Hi gardener,

Yes, he was a chef on board the ship but I'm not aware of any marriage in London.

It seems as if Ancestry might be able to reveal a few secrets here! Especially the list referring to French/German nationality.

Thanks for all your you help

Lee

[gardener]

Hi gardener,

Yes, he was a chef on board the ship but I'm not aware of any marriage in London.

Lee

It was this entry:

Name: Annie D Fane
Spouse: Oscar Greiner
Marriage: Mar 1917 - St Martin, London
Other: QJan-Jan-Feb-Mar 1917

If it isn't your Oscar then it must be another and you will then have to be careful not to follow the wrong one.
The only Annie D Fane that looks to be in the right place is an older woman...

1911 census
A Fane Daughter abt 1895 16 Female Single MATCHER St Martins 2 Batemans Buildings, Soho Square
Annie Dorothy Fane Wife abt 1862 49 Female Widowed CHARING Northfleet, Kent, England 2 Batemans Buildings, Soho Square

BUT that one seems to die here:
Deaths Jun 1917
Fane Annie 55 St.Martin 1a 625

So either this Oscar Greiner married the widowed Annie Dorothy, things didn't work out and she reverted to Fane before dying
OR Oscar married the daughter who was also in the 1911 census and seems to have been a Dorothy too

Births Dec 1894
Fane Annie Dorothy Strand 1b 636

I don't see any children for this Greiner/Fane.
There are some for Greiner/Bell though but I can't find a marriage to Ms Bell?

[Lee]

Nothing doing with the Fane lady but I do think that Bell was the maiden name of Ivy, Oscar's wife.
I couldn't find the marriage either but I know they had 4 kids Ronnie, Henry, Oscar & Ivy.
I found the birth record for Ivy (the younger) and her mother's maiden was listed - it was Bell, so Ivy Bell must have married Oscar (the elder).
Ivy (younger) is listed as being born in Stockton along with 2 of the other kids but they all settled in Bradford and Oscar (elder) it seems also lived in Grimsby and died in Cleethorpes.

So now I'm a little confused as to the missing piece - why is there no marriage record?!

Lee

[MarkCDodd]

According to Wikipedia...Alsace switched between Gemany and France four times over a 75 year period!

So I assume when asked an Alsation (yes, it is where the dog breed come from) could claim citizenship of either.