*TBC Archive in 24 hrs* Accuracy of Death records

[Neil Barber]

Isn't it annoying when the paper trail dries up?

I have my paternal great grandfather Walter Richard Judd in the 1891 census as a twenty-year-old railway porter living in Soho London. I have him in 1892 when he gets married in August and (cough) again in October of that year when my grandfather was born. And that's it until 1915 when my grandfather (also Walter) gets married and his father W R Judd is shown on the marriage certificate as deceased. I have trawled the 1901 and 1911 census and could not find anything regarding his date of death and carried out general searches to no avail. I checked every quarter of every year of the death register from October 1892 until July 1915 and there is no record of his death (that was boring, I can tel you).

It is exactly the same with my great grandmother Emily (nee French), 1881 census... check. 1891 census (now a domestic servant working under the roof of another family)... check. 1892 wedding... check (her ex-boss is at the wedding). 1892 there for the birth of her son... check! But from that point on nothing, doesn't appear in the 1901 or 1911 census, nothing shows up on the general search or anything on the death register.

How can two people just disappear? Could they have got divorced, she remarries and takes another name? Were records kept of divorces?

What is intriguing is that my grandfather appears in the 1901 census as being an eight-year-old boarder in a house in Dover with a couple in their thirties (and this suggests that his mother is not around). The husband and head of household's occupation is given as a bell diver. On my grandfather's wedding certificate it shows his father as being deceased and occupation as, taa-daaa, a bell diver. Was he killed at work and his workmate took on the job of caring for him? Again, is there any way of finding out what happened to my great grandfather when I can't find his date of death?

Geneaology is fascinating but, oh so, frustrating at times!! For every question answered there's a further dozen questions revealed.

[Northern Lass]

Odd that one is Neil...do you think they emigrated?

On the 1911 census there is this one

HOUSEHOLD JUDD WALTER M 1871 40 Lambeth London

He was married that area wasnt he?

Marriages Sep 1892
Judd Walter Richard Lambeth 1d 881

there is this one but wrong name and age 10 yrs out...
is your Walter an Edgar too?

Deaths Jun 1893
Judd Walter Edgar 31 Lambeth 1d 244

[peterd]

poss that the name has been mispelt in the 1901 census, if the nightshift on they might find it there particulary good at the miss spells

[FarSide]

Don't see your Walter Richard at all on the 1901

But wondered if it's possible Emily reverted back to her maiden name French, there's this Emily with bros..

1901
62
Southern Road, Ashton-upon-Mersey
Emily French 31 - Single - School mistress - b Middlesex
Percy French 29 - Designer? cabinets - b Middlesex
Arthur French 24 - ? Leatherman - b Devon

[dianel]

Difficult one, this!
Neil, could you give us the details on that 1891 census for Walter Richard that you found, and the 1881 and 1891 ones for Emily? Do you have 1881 for Walter?

I'm wondering if they could have been overseas in 1901. As a 'bell diver', Walter could have had an overseas contract? And Walter jr been left in England to go to school?

[Jimmy]

Is this him in 1881.

John T. JUDD. Head. M. 49. Broughton, Hampshire, Clerk.
Elizabeth JUDD. Wife. M. 38. Camden Town, Middlesex,
Thomas C. JUDD. Son. 12. London, Middlesex, Scholar.
Walter R. JUDD. Son. 9. Soho, Middlesex, Scholar.
Jane JUDD. Daur. 7. Soho, Middlesex, Scholar.
Martha M. JUDD. Daur. 4. Soho, Middlesex, Scholar.

Dwelling 3 Meards St.
London, Middlesex,

[mallosa]

Hi Neil, I wonder if this would be of any use?

http://www.imca-int.com/divisions/divin ... diver.html

[Jimmy]

If he was at sea when he died try this,

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/cata ... fletID=246

[Northern Lass]

Here he is in 1891 down as Walter N Judd!

1891 St Marys Lambeth 23 Han????? Rd

Elizabeth Judd 47 head widow b London ? Town
T C Judd 22 son mantle cutter
W R Judd 19 son(says W N on ances!) railway porter
J Judd 17 dau dressmaker
M M Judd 14 dau
all others b middlesex

wonder who that one on the 1911 is
rite age ?

[mallosa]

1891: 23 Flaxman Road, Lambeth, London
Elizabeth Judd 47 Head Widow Housekeeper b.Somers Town, London
T C Judd 22 Son Mantle Cutter b.London City, Middlesex
W N Judd 19 (W R on actual page) Son Railway Porter b.London City, Middlesex
J Judd 17 Dau Dressmaker b.London City, Middlesex
M M Judd 14 Dau Dressmaker b.London City, Middlesex

[Neil Barber]

Hi folks

1881
John T. JUDD. Head. M. 49. Broughton, Hampshire, Clerk.
Elizabeth JUDD. Wife. M. 38. Camden Town, Middlesex,
Thomas C. JUDD. Son. 12. London, Middlesex, Scholar.
Walter R. JUDD. Son. 9. Soho, Middlesex, Scholar.
Jane JUDD. Daur. 7. Soho, Middlesex, Scholar.
Martha M. JUDD. Daur. 4. Soho, Middlesex, Scholar.

Dwelling 3 Meards St.
London, Middlesex,

That's him!

1891: 23 Flaxman Road, Lambeth, London
Elizabeth Judd 47 Head Widow Housekeeper b.Somers Town, London
T C Judd 22 Son Mantle Cutter b.London City, Middlesex
W N Judd 19 (W R on actual page) Son Railway Porter b.London City, Middlesex
J Judd 17 Dau Dressmaker b.London City, Middlesex
M M Judd 14 Dau Dressmaker b.London City, Middlesex

Yes, that's him. The N is wrong, I've looked at the census and you can see why!

Don't see your Walter Richard at all on the 1901

No, nor me. Frustrating.

But wondered if it's possible Emily reverted back to her maiden name French, there's this Emily with bros..

1901
62
Southern Road, Ashton-upon-Mersey
Emily French 31 - Single - School mistress - b Middlesex
Percy French 29 - Designer? cabinets - b Middlesex
Arthur French 24 - ? Leatherman - b Devon

I tracked her back to the 1881 census and she had two sisters at two and four years younger than her so I don't think this is the same woman

HOUSEHOLD JUDD WALTER M 1871 40 Lambeth London

He was married that area wasnt he?

Was this the 1911 census? He is shown married to an Alice not an Emily but for only 12 years - 1899. The wife has a daughter of 16 so this is her second marriage.

JUDD, WALTER HEAD MARRIED 12 M 40 WAREHOUSEMAN LONDON PADDINGTON
JUDD, ALICE WIFE MARRIED F 43 MARCHWOOD HAMPSHIRE
MITCHELL, ETHEL DAUGHTER SINGLE F 16 BOX MAKER CARDBOARD WESTMINSTER
JUDD, LILY DAUGHTER SINGLE F 11 SCHOOL LAMBETH
JUDD, LOUIE DAUGHTER SINGLE F 9 SCHOOL LAMBETH
JUDD, VIOLET DAUGHTER SINGLE F 6 SCHOOL LAMBETH

This does not explain him being shown as a bell diver on his son's marriage certificate in 1915! Although I suppose Emily could have died or they could have divorced or he could have been a bigamist!! The 1891 census said he was born in Soho Middlesex and in the 1891 as London City Middlesex.


Marriages Sep 1892
Judd Walter Richard Lambeth 1d 881

Yes, that's him.

there is this one but wrong name and age 10 yrs out...
is your Walter an Edgar too?

Deaths Jun 1893
Judd Walter Edgar 31 Lambeth 1d 244

No, too old.

[grangers14]

*TBC* to be archived 24 hrs unless anything else to be added.

Jo