*ARC TBC* - Aussie Brit brick wall help please

[Aussie_Brit]

Hi

I am not from London but a lot of my family was and I am a sort of "Adopted Londoner" due to my maternal grans mum being from there. Islington to be precise. I know a great deal on London and have many hsotory books including Soho Past, Islington Past, Camden Town Past, Memories of Holborn, plus many more.

Hi Ben. My grandmother's family all lived in the Limehouse area at the turn of the century (1900). The story I have been told is thus:
My great grandparents died young (he died in 1902, not sure when she died) but they left 4 children orphaned. My Nan was the second to youngest, she had 2 older brothers and a younger sister.
Ok, apparently one of the older brothers was married so he and his wife took his 2 young sisters in. My nan got a job working as a handstitcher, not sure what they called it but she would sew the linings into men's hats and jackets with those tiny little stitches, She was going out with the bosses son at the time and she would have been 20 years old. We never had a real name for this man but he went by the nickname of "Izzy" so I am assuming that perhaps his name was Israel or Isaac? Or even that this could have been a shortened version of his surname. I think what I am looking for is a Jewish tailor? They must have owned a business for my nan to be working for them.
Anyhow, Nan got pregnant. He wanted to marry her and take her to America but he didn't want the baby - the shame I guess - but she wouldn't give up the baby and she didn't want to leave England. The baby was born January 1914, so we are looking about April 1913?
Talk about brick wall!! And no, the father's name is not on the BC.

[Northern Lass]

Hi Aussie Brit have moved this to its own topic.
If you wish to retitle it please do.

Can you give us some dates, names areas etc so we can maybe have a look for you ....you never know

[Aussie_Brit]

Thanks Northern Lass. I have to be very careful with sensitive stuff here. I am looking for my dad's biological father. (My brother is angry with me for doing this because he thinks I am being unfair to my dad advertising something that he was ashamed of. And the fact that my dad is no longer with us to "defend himself" so to speak)
The name I have on the BC is Emanuel Charles Rawlinson. Born Poplar January 21 1914. I have found this also in the online records.
His mother's name was Sarah Ann Rawlinson b March 1893. She is on the 1901 census with her family. Father: Fred, Mother: Maria, Brothers: Charles & George, Sister: Eleanor. They lived in 4 Claydens Buildings, Limehouse. (Salmon Lane)
Fred Rawlinson died in 1902 (I'm not sure how I came across this information) I don't know how he died. I also don't know how or when Maria died. I was patiently waiting for the 1911 census to be released so that I could follow up on Sarah to see where she was living.
She married in April 1916 to Alfred George Kentish-Turbefield and they moved, at some point, to Southend-On-Sea.
So for my dad to be born in Jan 1914 means she would have fallen pregnant about April 1913. I have no idea where she worked but I am assuming it would still be in the district area of Limehouse. Would they have travelled far to work in those days?
All we have for the bio. dad is the name "Izzy". This information came to me via my aunt (dad's youngest sister) who sadly now has also passed away. My aunt told me that my nan worked for these people who made suits (?) hats, coats for gentlemen. She hand stitched the linings inside the hats or coats - Gosh I wish I had paid more attention LOL.
I have no idea if the bio dad ever left England and went to America either.
Thank you for any help you may have.

[Northern Lass]

There is this one on the 1911 census looks like Sarah

HOUSEHOLD RAWLINSON SARAH F 1893 18 Poplar London

but you would need to buy credits

I went on to free bmd but in a wild card search ie place Poplar and then in name just Is* and was looking for Issac/Israel or somat like that
loads of em....well a few anyway

just wondering if they were maybe jewish tailors....so you could maybe check any with that name and where they are on the 1901 ....if in that area....and tailors..or via the 1881 occupation census and see if tailors in the Poplar area/ or Limestone area and maybe with a father or member of household having a name Isaaac/israel or similar

these struck me...

Births Sep 1891
Katzner Israel Poplar 1c 577

Births Dec 1893
Goldstein Isidor Poplar 1c 662

that Isidor one especially!!

[dianel]

Isidor Goldstein seems to have died in infancy:
NAME:
Isidor Goldstein
BIRTH:
abt 1893
DEATH:
Dec 1894 - Poplar (To 1965), Greater London, London, Middlesex

[mallosa]

Does this help?

1901: 58 Park Road, Newcastle On Tyne
Samuel Katzner 39 Head M Tr.... Draper British Subject, Austria
Golda Katzner 41 Wife Austria
Rachel Katzner 16 Dau London
Hyman Katzner 15 Son Chemists Apprentice London
Maurice Katzner 11 Son London
Israel Katzner 9 Son London
Rosy Katzner 7 Dau Newcastle
Wolfe Katzner 2 months Son Newcastle
Mary Welsh 31 Servant Leadgate, Durham

[Northern Lass]

Is this still a Brick Wall?
Or have you solved it?

Unless otherwise advised this will be moved to archived section

[Northern Lass]

Heard from Aussie brit

still a brick wall

[cid]

Is this her?

1911 1 Lion St Poplar E

RAWLINSON, Robert Head Married M 27 1884 Beer House Keeper Limehouse London
RAWLINSON, Alice Wife Married 5 years F 25 1886 Borough London
RAWLINSON, Florence Daughter F 5 1906 School Limhouse London
RAWLINSON, Frederick Son M 3 1908 Limehouse London
RAWLINSON, George Brother Single M 22 1889 Cautter Limehouse London
RAWLINSON, Sarah Sister Single F 18 1893 Machinist Limehouse London (Tailoring in the industry notes)
RAWLINSON, Nellie Sister Single F 16 1895 Machinist Limehouse London
RAWLINSON, Robert C Son Single M 1 1910 Limehouse London

[cid]

1911

45 Gloucester Road Finsbury Park N

KATZNER, Samuel Head Married M 50 1861 Wholesale Draper Austria Resident (EMPLOYER - in notes)
KATZNER, Golda Wife Married 28 years F 51 1860 Austria Resident
KATZNER, Rachel Daughter Single F 26 1885 London Stepney
KATZNER, Hyman Son Single M 25 1886 Wholesale Draper's Assistant London Stepney
KATZNER, Maurice Son Single M 21 1890 Wholesale Draper's Assistant London Stepney
KATZNER, Israel Son Single M 19 1892 Wholesale Draper's Assistant London Bow
KATZNER, Rose Daughter Single F 17 1894 Northumberland Newcastle Tyne
KATZNER, William Son M 10 1901 Northumberland Newcastle Tyne
HILLS, Emma Servant Single F 23 1888 General Servant Domestic London Hackney

[Aussie_Brit]

Thank you Cid but the first one is definately not my grandmother. Her father was Fred and her mother was Maria Harriett Whiff. I have managed to trace back her parents and grandparents too before my ancestry,com membership expired.
My father's biological father would have been in London as that is where my grandmother worked and lived. He apparently moved on but my nan stayed, married and raised a family of 5 children including my dad. The other 4 were from her marriage. At some point they moved to Southend. This is where they stayed until they died. I was born in Southend as well. So, sorry, no Northumberland in that family but I am grateful for your trying for me.
As mentioned before, my aunt said my bio g.father was called "Izzy" which was his nickname. I am assuming that this would have been a shortened version of his full name. My aunt told me that he went to America so trying to find passenger lists to America sometime around 1913 onwards is like looking for a needle in a haystack as we don't know if he actually went.
Another thought I had was that my nan named my dad "Emanuel". This is on his birth certificate. There are no Emanuels in the family so I wonder if she was named after someone in his bio father's family or even his father? Dad's surname was registered as Rawlinson which was my nan's maiden name.
Another clue, once again information passed on from aunt, was that the bio father's family owned a business, that my nan worked for them sewing the lining into hats. So I have been trying to find business directory information for tailors/milliners or whatever else they were called in those days, in the Poplar/Stepney area in 1913. It's so difficult when you don't have money to spend on research.

[cid]

Hi AB

Sorry to be a pest, but is this the family you are resarching

1891 - 43 Gill Street Limehouse. London
ROLLINSON, Frederick Head Married M 30 1861 G Labourer Chatham Kent
ROLLINSON, Maria Wife Married F 34 1857 Bethnal Green London
ROLLINSON, Robert Son Single M 7 1884 Scholar Limehouse London
ROLLINSON, George Son Single M 3 1888 Limehouse London
ROLLINSON, Charles Son Single M 1891 Limehouse London

1901 - 4 Claydens Buidings Limehouse
- No Robert -
RAWLINSON, Fred Head Married M 43 1858 Costermonger Rochester Kent
RAWLINSON, Maria Wife Married F 45 1856 Bow London
RAWLINSON, George Son Single M 11 1890 Limehouse London
RAWLINSON, Charles Son Single M 9 Limehouse London
RAWLINSON, Sarah Daughter Single F 8 1893 Limehouse London
RAWLINSON, Eleanor Daughter Single F 5 1896 Limehouse London
ROLLINSON, Charles Son Single M 0 (6M) 1891 Limehouse London

Because George, Sarah and Nellie (Eleanor) seem to be living with Robert and his wife and children in 1911.( No Charles though) which seems to tie in with your earlier post. And all 3 younger siblings are working in the tailoring industry

Is this her?

1911 1 Lion St Poplar E

RAWLINSON, Robert Head Married M 27 1884 Beer House Keeper Limehouse London
RAWLINSON, Alice Wife Married 5 years F 25 1886 Borough London
RAWLINSON, Florence Daughter F 5 1906 School Limhouse London
RAWLINSON, Frederick Son M 3 1908 Limehouse London
RAWLINSON, George Brother Single M 22 1889 Cautter Limehouse London
RAWLINSON, Sarah Sister Single F 18 1893 Machinist Limehouse London (Tailoring in the industry notes)
RAWLINSON, Nellie Sister Single F 16 1895 Machinist Limehouse London
RAWLINSON, Robert C Son Single M 1 1910 Limehouse London

Maybe someone else will have a look and see if i'm missing something???

[cid]

Here's a Robert Rawlinson in 1901 in the Beer trade

LEE, Harry Head Married M 38 1863 Licensed Victuallers Mangr Oxfordshire
LEE, Emily Wife Married F 39 1862 London
LEE, Harry Son Single M 8 1893 London
LEE, Grace D Daughter Single F 5 1896 London
LEE, William R Son Single M 0 (5 MOS) 1901 London
PIKE, Charles Servant Single M 23 1878 London
RAWLINSON, Robert Servant Single M 17 1884 London
NEWMAN, Rose Servant Single F 16 1885 Domestic Servant London
PRIOR, Annie Servant Single F 21 1880 Domestic Servant London

[cid]

The only other suggestion I can make is that you put a request in for someone to have a look to see if there is a baptism for your grandfather. You will need to put in name and approx date. Someone on here may have the parish registers for the area. I've looked on IGI and FMP but I can't see one, but they've not all been transcribed yet so that doesn't meant that there isn't one. If there is one you may be lucky enough for the father to be named. If not I don't see how you will find out who your Grandfather is without someone actually telling you.

[Antie Em]

Is this still a Brickwall, or have you solved it?

Unless otherwise advised this will be moved to the Brickwalls Archived section
within 24 hours