Clarence Bate and family

[smoky]

Clarence BATE's Siblings

Thanks to all who sent me the details of Clarence's siblings [7, 8 children in all] for your input, and particularly for the dates and addresses.
My puzzle is this: this has to be from the 1901 Census. However, I know from family legend that a male baby was born and died called Clarence, so the next male baby born, my grandfather, was also called Clarence. I know this from my dad, Clarry's son] and thus it is fairly reliable. If you look at the dates of birth of Annie [b.1889] and Fred [b. 1896] where he would be placed, there is a big gap, that could indicate it was so.
Clarry was one of a huge number of kids, either 13 or 15, according to the stories, and not all survived: but even given that there were two Clarences; and that by the 1901 Census, an elder son born, say, 1879/80 could have left home for some reason, it still only makes 10, and I can't find any more.
Sorry! It sounds as if I'm being greedy, but I was so sure of this, and am so puzzled by it. Could it be an indication of the murky areas of still-birth or child mortality? How would these have been recorded? or would they be recorded at all ?
Sorry to bang on.

[Northern Lass]

Do you know of the free bmd site ?

poss births in 1892

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

Births Jun 1892
Bate Clarence Leonard Dudley 6c 96

Births Sep 1893
Bate Clarence Stourbridge 6c 153

YOu would need to check with regis office to see if these are the correct ones
so that one in 1892 may be the earlier Clarence.

The Wmbsgh will also be of help
and sites like Ancestry too

poss death for Clarence
from ancestry

Name: Clarence Bate
Birth Date: 11 Aug 1893
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1971
Age at Death: 77
Registration district: Meriden
Inferred County: Warwickshire
Volume: 9c
Page: 2362

Name: Dora Millicent Bate
Birth Date: 22 Dec 1893
Date of Registration: Jan 1986
Age at Death: 92
Registration district: Solihull North
Inferred County: West Midlands
Volume: 34
Page: 3

[Northern Lass]

I looked up these baps Jan, doesn't give anymore detail:-


Father: Samuel Bate, Mother: Ann


1. SARAH BATE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 23 JAN 1803 Halesowen, Worcester, England

2. JOSEPH BATE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 17 SEP 1809 Halesowen, Worcester, England

3. THOMAS BATE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 12 OCT 1806 Halesowen, Worcester, England

4. HANNAH BATE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 17 JUN 1804 Halesowen, Worcester, England

Thanks linell

can anyone add these pls in on Bcc

[linell]

I will tomorrow Jan........

[Northern Lass]

I will tomorrow Jan........

Thanks Linell

[smoky]

I have found this in my folders:

1911
BATE, Josiah Head Married M 53 1858 Chain Maker Iron Worcestershire Cradley
BATE, Nancy Wife Married
32 years F 52 1859 Worcestershire Cradley
BATE, Rhoda Daughter Single F 24 1887 Hollow Ware Trade And Bucket's Worker Worcestershire Cradley
BATE, Annie Daughter Single F 22 1889 Tailoress Worcestershire Cradley
BATE, Clarence Son Single M 17 1894 Student- Teacher Worcestershire Cradley
BATE, Frederick Son Single M 15 1896 Labourer General Worcestershire Cradley
WILLETTS, Rhoda Mother In Law Widow F 76 1835 Worcestershire Cradley
11 Children Born Alive 2Died
Tan House Lane Cradley Cradley Heath Staffordshire
Worcestershire

:from 14th January [I can't believe that it has only been one week since I began this] when I didn't know about links and was saving stuff fairly randomly. I'm not sure who sent it, but thanks very much because it says '11 children born alive/2 died', and is therefore first evidence of the family of 12-15 I was expecting to find.
Also, thanks Linell, for finding the two Clarences. At least, checking the Register Offices is a good place to start.
Smoky

[linell]

It was Jan who found these Smoky:-

Births Jun 1892
Bate Clarence Leonard Dudley 6c 96

Births Sep 1893
Bate Clarence Stourbridge 6c 153

They are birth certificates, you cannot look them up, you have to send for the Certificates from either the General Register Office here:- http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/

Or the local Dudley Register Office.

HTH Linell.

[linell]

All added here Jan:-

http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tr ... =959024483

Can archive now thankyou.

[gardener]

Sorry! It sounds as if I'm being greedy, but I was so sure of this, and am so puzzled by it. Could it be an indication of the murky areas of still-birth or child mortality? How would these have been recorded? or would they be recorded at all ?
Sorry to bang on.

Stillbirths did not have to be registered at all until 1927. So before that time there must have been a lot of births which went unrecorded. I know that my aunt was born about 1925 (forget when exactly) and she had a twin who was still born. The twin did not get a certificate.

There is a whole paper about stillbirths here if you want to read it
http://www.localpopulationstudies.org.u ... _42-52.pdf
I just glanced at it and it says that it was cheaper to bury a stillborn child so some babies may have been declared stillborn even if they breathed as this would save money.

[Northern Lass]

Thanks for adding Linell

So we can't find a death for that Clarence so that earlier birth may not be him.

[gardener]

It was Jan who found these Smoky:-

Births Jun 1892
Bate Clarence Leonard Dudley 6c 96

Births Sep 1893
Bate Clarence Stourbridge 6c 153


HTH Linell.

I wonder if this is Clarence Leonard?

1922 marriage
BATE Clarence L ROUND Bessie L Dudley, St Luke Dudley Register Office 223/004/468

[smoky]

Thanks to Gardener for sending the link to information on Registration of Still Births around the 1900s. It's so sad that often the cost of the burial determined the registration of the child!

[Northern Lass]

I don't think we can add any more to this now Smoky.

You need to have a look at the witnesses at that marriage for Samuel Bate and Ann Cox see if
any clues there.

I am going to move this to the archive tomoz
if you need help with another rellie then put a post on.
If you need help finding your way around the sites ie IGI free bmd as I suggested
put a post in beginners someone will help you there with how to find stuff without
giving you the answers so you learn how to find it yourself...half the fun.

Hope that has helped
I have added Thomas Coleys marriage to Bcc courtesy of rf
I may have some more to add just going thru my emails now.

[smoky]

I agree. Completed, certainly for now. There is plenty here to research, and there are just so many of them! Thanks very much to all.
Sally