Probate /Administration

[snoopysue]

I've just recieved the probate info for my gr gr gr grandfather, George Jinks. He died intestate, so there' s letters of administration but of course no will.

Most of it I understand: Probate is granted to his son, my gr gr grandfather (George Henry Jinks), but then there's this section at the bottom where it says "Sureties" and names another son (William Jinks) and a Mark Barker (possibly son in law, but occupation matches son in laws father too). It gives their names, occupations and addresses and states the value of the estate. What does Sureties mean?

[SRD]

They're usually guarantees of payment of loans or bonds.

wiki has

A surety or guarantee, in finance, is a promise by one party (the guarantor) to assume responsibility for the debt obligation of a borrower if that borrower defaults. The person or company that provides this promise, is also known as a surety or guarantor.

[snoopysue]

Would this then mean that my gr gr gr grandfather died owing money?

[SRD]

I don't know enough about it to be sure but it either means he died owing money that was guaranteed by his son and Mark Jinks who would therefore have prior claim to the estate or he died guaranteeing a loan made by those people. If it was an official loan then his estate may have been responsible for at least continuing the guarantees or maybe actually paying off those loans.

[gardener]

I think the administrator had to sign a bond promising to perform an inventory of the deceased's estate. This site http://familyrecords.dur.ac.uk/nei/NEI_records.htm says that it was usually double the value of the estate (though how they would know that before making the inventory beats me). Perhaps George Henry Jinks was unable to sign the bond (no money) so the other's signed it instead.

[peterd]

maybe george jinks when "Sureties" for his son and son in law ?

[SRD]

Ooops, that's what comes of relying on memory rather than copying names from the OP.

[snoopysue]

At the bottom, directly under the Surities bit it says "Effects Gross £19. 18. 3. No leaseholds" So it maybe looks like he was guarentor for someone else rather than the one who borrowed the money.

[snoopysue]

I think the administrator had to sign a bond promising to perform an inventory of the deceased's estate. This site http://familyrecords.dur.ac.uk/nei/NEI_records.htm says that it was usually double the value of the estate (though how they would know that before making the inventory beats me). Perhaps George Henry Jinks was unable to sign the bond (no money) so the other's signed it instead.

Just looked at this:

Bonds were required for a variety of reasons by the court. Most common were those entered by executors and administrators, termed will bonds and administration bonds, and which bound the bondsman and his sureties to perform their duties faithfully, or suffer the penalty of a sum usually twice the value of the deceased's estate (series DPRI/3). Such bonds might be cancelled once a probate account had been accepted, and the conditions of the bond performed. In the later period will bonds became required only where no executor was named in the will or where for some reason the persons authorised by the court to execute the will were not those named as executors in the will.

Doesn't that make it look like "sureties" were people like the bondsman? Surely when it talks about "their duties" it's people in the plural. This looks promising!

[snoopysue]

I think the administrator had to sign a bond promising to perform an inventory of the deceased's estate. This site http://familyrecords.dur.ac.uk/nei/NEI_records.htm says that it was usually double the value of the estate (though how they would know that before making the inventory beats me). Perhaps George Henry Jinks was unable to sign the bond (no money) so the other's signed it instead.

There's a further link From that page Gardner that's intersesting:

It is important to note, however, that executors and administrators were not personally liable for any bonds, contracts or debts entered into by the deceased during his lifetime: while such debts were always settled first, before payment of legacies or distribution to the next of kin could occur, they could only be settled in so far as the totality of the deceased's estate allowed.
The format of such bonds is invariably the same, being in two parts: the first part, until 1733 usually in Latin, stating the names of the bondsman and sureties, the penal sum and the date, and the second part a statement of the conditions. The sureties together agreed to underwrite the bondsman's liability, and thus each must have been sufficiently wealthy to cover half the penal sum. Sometimes affidavits of the sureties to this effect accompany the bond. At Durham, as generally elsewhere, the penal sums were calculated at double the value of the deceased's estate. Strictly speaking as the bond might be entered long before an inventory had been completed, the estimated value of the estate might have been only notional. However in practice executors and administrators usually moved quite quickly and already had a draft inventory of the deceased's estate ready by the time they were formally appointed as the personal representatives. The bond is then dated, so completing the notification.

There's a lot more there too!

[snoopysue]

As the above says, the Sureties had to have enough money to cover half of the penal sum.
I've been confused as to Mark Barker, as I have at least two in my tree, but no documentation of either living at the address mentioned (Gun's Lane, West Bromwich). The obvious assumption is that it is George Jinks son in law, but again I have no documatation of him beeing a Breeze Dealer. His father, also Mark Barker was however a breeze dealer.
If the sureties had to have sufficient wealth, then maybe son in law Mark Barker asked his father to help out.

[Lynne Smith]

My son passed away suddenly, and of course he left no will. My husband has been going through the painful task of applying for Administrator. It has taken more than four months to get to the point of being able to apply to the Courts. The Public Trustee will not agree until a Bond has been purchased for the total value of the estate plus $1,000.00 (and to add to the nonsense of it all, they required $300.00 + plus for their administration fees (or something). This may not be of help, but I am taking this opportunity to scream at any one who reads this and does not have a will, please ! make a will, even if it is just scratched out on a piece of paper, because guaranteed, it will cost the estate a lot of money !

lynne

[grangers14]

Sorry for the loss of your son Lynne and I hope things are soon sorted out for you all.
It must have been such a shock and then all of this to sort out.
Jo

[SRD]

MrsSRD's previous husband died intestate some while ago. She did all the probate herself and it didn't help to discover that the estate didn't automatically revert to her but had to be split between her and her children in various somewhat complicated ways. Please make a will.

[snoopysue]

I'm sorry for your loss too Lynne.