Samuel Smith

[Northern Lass]

need an accurate dob for him pls
so many on Bcc

http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tr ... =331996961

dau Eunice

[Northern Lass]

wit could be her sister
http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tr ... =235108735

[kdw]

Witness marriage
West Midlands Marriage indexes for the years: 1872
ALLPORT Issachar SMITH Eliza Blackheath, St Paul Dudley Register Office 012/001/76

1871 Elbow Street Rowley Regis
Samuel Smith Head Mar 42 Coal Miner Born Rowley Regis
Bettsey Smith Wife Mar 34 Born Cradley
Eliza Smith Daur 17 Nail Maker Born Dudley
Anthony Smith Son 13 Coal Miner Born Rowley
Unice Smith Daur 8 Scholar Born Rowley
George Smith Son 4 Scholar Born Rowley
Samuel Smith Son 1 Bornm Rowley

1861 Elbow Street Rowley Regis
Samuel Smith Head Mar 32 Coal Miner Born Rowley
Elizabeth Smith Wife 27 Born Tewkesbury
Eliza Smith Daur 7 Scholar Born Rowley Regis
Anthony Smith Son 3 Born Rowley Regis
Martha Smith Daur 7 MO Born Rowley Regis

[kdw]

Possible Marriage
West Midlands Marriage indexes for the years: 1853

SMITH Samuel GAZE Elizabeth Dudley, St Thomas Dudley Register Office 204/012/327

[Northern Lass]

any bapts pls

looks like an Elizabeth is mother to Eliza
and then does Samuel marry a Betsy

[nailer2011]

Jan,

This is one in my list

A copy of the marriage certificate of SAMUEL SMITH and ELIZABETH (aka Betsy) GAZE shows they were married in St Thomas"™ Church, Dudley, Worcestershire on 17 April 1853 and that Samuel"™s occupation was a "˜Miner"™. Also, Samuel"™s father was identified as WILLIAM SMITH, "˜Nailer "“deceased"™, and Betsy"™s father as JAMES GAZE, "˜Miner-deceased"™. Both Samuel and Betsy were both shown to be resident in Dudley at the time of the marriage and the witnesses were Sarah Ann Fellows and John Scriven. I will send you a copy.

Betsy's parents were JAMES GAZE and MARY SHUKER

The LDS website has a record which shows the birth of a daughter, Eliza on 25 September 1854 and her christening in St Thomas"™ Church, Dudley on 29 October 1854. Also, BMD index records were found of the birth of a son, Anthony, in the March quarter of 1858 and of the birth of a daughter, Martha; also the birth of a son, George, in the June quarter of 1868 and his death in the June quarter of 1869; and of the birth of another son, Samuel, in the June quarter of 1870.

The family moved to South Wales and are shown living there in the 1891 census.

ELIZA married ISSACHAR ALLPORT.

I believe ANTHONY married an ELLEN WORTON in WORKSOP in 1881; and SAMUEL married ADA MARY POWELL (in South Wales) in 1892 (they had a daughter, another Ada Mary - born in 1893). Regrettably, I have no other certificates.

I am sure others can fill in the missing details. Hope this is helpful .

H.

[Northern Lass]

thanks Nailer I have the copy so don't worry bout that

so Elizabeth changed places of birth on census?

and name varied for her

so we can join up Eliza and Eunice as sisters

[Northern Lass]

I cant see that Eliza bapt

[Northern Lass]

that is a huge gap on census
not convinced on Eliza and Eunice having same mothers

1871 Elbow Street Rowley Regis
Samuel Smith Head Mar 42 Coal Miner Born Rowley Regis
Bettsey Smith Wife Mar 34 Born Cradley
Eliza Smith Daur 17 Nail Maker Born Dudley
Anthony Smith Son 13 Coal Miner Born Rowley
Unice Smith Daur 8 Scholar Born Rowley
George Smith Son 4 Scholar Born Rowley
Samuel Smith Son 1 Bornm Rowley

[nailer2011]

Jan,

Although there is a census record which shows Betsy"™s birthplace as Tewkesbury, Gloucestershire, there is a LDS IGI record which shows that she was christened in St Thomas Church, Dudley on 11 October 1835. The reference to Tewkesbury seems to come from the fact that the GAZE family were in the Workhouse there. Another researcher on Ancestry claims she has a a copy of the birth certificate of Betsy's sister, ESTHER GAZE and it shows that she was born in the Tewkesbury Workhouse on 28 August 1840.

The Ancestry tree also shows JAMES GAZE died in 1840 and this is confirmed by a BMD record showing his death in the Stourbridge District in the March quarter of 1840; and the 1841 census shows Betsy's family, headed by MARY GAZE, widow, living in Two Gates, Cradley.

H

[Northern Lass]

If this is the marriage

1853
SMITH Samuel GAZE Elizabeth Dudley, St Thomas Dudley Register Office 204/012/327

then that bapt in 1854 for an Eliza Smith is for a Betsy as mother no samuel for father
which is very strange

ELIZA ANN SMITH Birth: 25 SEP 1854
Christening: 29 OCT 1854 Saint Thomas, Dudley, Worcester,
Parents:
Mother: BETSY SMITH Extracted

[nailer2011]

Jan,

I agree that without a copy of the birth certificate it looks circumstantial, but Eliza and Issachar Allport also went to South Wales and can be found living nearby Wiliam and Betsy. As indeed did daughter, EUNICE SMITH and her husband THOMAS RAYBOULD.

ELIZABETH GAZE is described as ELIZABETH on her marriage and death certificates but as BETSY on the LDs christening record and the birth certificate of her daughter, EUNICE, who was born on 13 August 1862 in Elbow Street, Rowley Regis. Father: SAMUEL SMITH, COAL MINER; Mother: BETSY SMITH, formerly GAZE.

Hope you are convinced

H.

[Northern Lass]

so you have the birth for Eunice?

Ok so mother for her is Gaze that fits with marriage in 1853

so we dont know that that bapt is for Eliza that marries Isaachar?

as it is strange samuels name is not on it

If you could send me that birth Certif nailer I can add marriage and Elizabeths name in

[nailer2011]

Jan,

Will send birth certificate asap.

Will also look again at records to see if I have any other evidence to help 'prove' it is the same Eliza.

H.

[Northern Lass]

thanks nailer that would be great

will add what I can then archive this thread