Genealogy Forum UK

Getting very frustrated with this and really need some help.
(There is another 'JORDAN' descendant plugging away at this too but neither of us has got to the bottom of this one!)

Apologies if this is all a bit 'long winded'... just wanted to get all the info in!

My ancestor... Thomas JORDAN was born in Hatton in 1803. From IGI.. his parents were John JORDAN & Mary COMMANDER... his birthdate .. 17 Jul 1803 & Christening 7 Aug 1803

Also from IGI.. I found the following siblings for Thomas... all listed as being sons of John JORDAN & Mary COMMANDER..
Abraham JORDAN born 11 Sep 1807.. Christened 7 Aug 1807
Joseph JORDAN born 6 Nov 1809.. Christened 12 Nov 1809
Emus JORDAN born 11 Sep 1817.. Christened 28 Sep 1817
.....and one listed where the place is Worchester ( Worcester?)..( I wonder if this should be Warwickshire?)
...Timothy JORDAN.. Christened 29 Oct 1816.. son of John JORDAN & Mary COMMANDER

I have a marriage for John JORDAN & Mary COMMANDER in Haseley, near Hatton 28 Sep 1800, so birthdates for these boys seem reasonable though I did wonder if we are missing some other children?

Now this other 'JORDAN' descendant I am in contact with.. has a George JORDAN as their ancestor and had picked up ( from another tree on ancestry) that George was son of John JORDAN & Mary COMMANDER too.... born 16 Oct 1814 in Hatton
That tree had a couple of other brothers aswell...John JORDAN born 21 Jul 1805 & Cornelius JORDAN born 13 Nov 1820.. both born in Hatton
... but where did they get these from?... I can't find these on IGI.
I have also come across a Stephen JORDAN born in Hatton in 1813.. but don't have his parents.

It would seem reasonable that these other boys are all sons of John JORDAN & Mary COMMANDER , but we haven't found the hard proof yet. Where else could we look?

Next problem is what happens to George JORDAN after he is born... he doesn't show up again until 1871 when he is using the name John

Suffolk St, 5 Court 19, Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
John JORDAN (58) botanist born Hatton
... rest of family born in Birmingham...
wife Ellen (41),
children.. Agnes(10),
Thomas W (9),
Catherine Florence(7),
Julia (9months)

We have the son's marriage certificate ( that is Thomas W JORDAN) in 1885 which lists address as Suffolk St and father's name as George JORDAN deceased herbalist

So where was he for all those years? and why the different name? and that occupation is a bit unusual... could that help us find him?

I did find a George JORDAN from Warwickshire who was transported 'down under' in 1839... but there were lots of George JORDAN s and how would one get more info?
I suppose he may have been out of the country somewhere else or in the army?? ( his son Thomas had a long army career from 1882 to 1903)
... or has his name just been mispelt on the censuses 1841, 1851, 1861 ?

His daughter Agnes is listed as being born in Birmingham in 1860, so it is reasonable to assume that he was in the UK then?


Any suggestions on where to look next greatly appreciated!
Thankyou
Expat

Now this other 'JORDAN' descendant I am in contact with.. has a George JORDAN as their ancestor and had picked up ( from another tree on ancestry) that George was son of John JORDAN & Mary COMMANDER too.... born 16 Oct 1814 in Hatton
That tree had a couple of other brothers aswell...John JORDAN born 21 Jul 1805 & Cornelius JORDAN born 13 Nov 1820.. both born in Hatton
... but where did they get these from?... I can't find these on IGI.

expat66, it's a bit too late to really have a look at this now but I've just checked on IGI and, all 3 of the above are 'Submitted' entries so can't be relied on!

That is a shame about the 'submitted entries' Mallosa .. where are they on IGI?... I couldn't see them?

Just got some more info. on George JORDAN.
According to his son's birth certficate ( that is Thomas W JORDAN) ...George's occupation listed as pork butcher journeyman and
...address in 1861 listed as 107 Cregoe Street, Birmingham. George's wife was Ellen ( or possibly Helen).. they married in 1860 and would have had 1 daughter by the time of the 1861 census...Agnes Ellen JORDAN born 1860

Still can't find them on the census though using 'Ancestry'?

Can anyone find them using 'find my past? or some other source? ( I don't have paid membership with them)

Many Thanks
Expat

expat66 wrote:That is a shame about the 'submitted entries' Mallosa .. where are they on IGI?... I couldn't see them?

(submitted)
JOHN JORDAN
Birth: 03 JUL 1805
Christening: 21 JUL 1805 Hatton, Warwick, England
Father: JOHN JORDAN
Mother: MARY COMMANDER

(submitted)
GEORGE JORDAN
Birth:
Christening: 16 OCT 1814 Hatton, Warwick, England
Father: JOHN JORDAN
Mother: MARY COMMANDER

(submitted)
CORNELIUS JORDAN
Birth:
Christening: 13 NOV 1820 Hatton, Warwick, England
Father: JOHN JORDAN
Mother: MARY COMMANDER

expat66 wrote:
Just got some more info. on George JORDAN.
According to his son's birth certficate ( that is Thomas W JORDAN) ...George's occupation listed as pork butcher journeyman and
...address in 1861 listed as 107 Cregoe Street. George's wife was Ellen ( or possibly Helen).. they married in 1860 and would have had 1 daughter by the time of the 1861 census...Agnes Ellen JORDAN born 1860

Still can't find them on the census though using 'Ancestry'?

Can anyone find them using 'find my past? or some other source? ( I don't have paid membership with them)

Many Thanks
Expat

(Extracted)
AGNES HELEN JORDAN
Birth:
Christening: 06 MAY 1860 Saint Thomas, Birmingham, Warwick, England
Father: GEORGE ALFRED JORDAN
Mother: HELEN

Thankyou Mallosa,
Every bit helps

My 'Jordan' contact is sending off for some more certficates... so we shall see where that gets us.

Must admit to being a bit puzzled by this George JORDAN character... he seems to have gone from being a pork butcher to a botanist to a herbalist. Then, apparently, on his daughter Catherine's marriage certificate he is described as a doctor??

Thanks again
Expat

mallosa wrote:

expat66 wrote:
Just got some more info. on George JORDAN.
According to his son's birth certficate ( that is Thomas W JORDAN) ...George's occupation listed as pork butcher journeyman and
...address in 1861 listed as 107 Cregoe Street. George's wife was Ellen ( or possibly Helen).. they married in 1860 and would have had 1 daughter by the time of the 1861 census...Agnes Ellen JORDAN born 1860

Still can't find them on the census though using 'Ancestry'?

Can anyone find them using 'find my past? or some other source? ( I don't have paid membership with them)

Many Thanks
Expat

(Extracted)
AGNES HELEN JORDAN
Birth:
Christening: 06 MAY 1860 Saint Thomas, Birmingham, Warwick, England
Father: GEORGE ALFRED JORDAN
Mother: HELEN

poss siblings all extracted

AMOS JORDIN
Birth: 07 APR 1859
Christening: 21 APR 1859 Saint Thomas, Birmingham, Warwick,
Death: 27 APR 1859


Father: GEORGE JORDIN
Mother: HELEN

MARY JANE JORDAN
Christening: 18 FEB 1866 Saint Thomas, Birmingham, Warwick,

Father: GEORGE JORDAN
Mother: ELLEN


THOMAS WILLIAM JORDON
Christening: 03 NOV 1861 Saint Thomas, Birmingham, Warwick, England


Father: GEORGE JORDON
Mother: ELLEN

dont know if there anything of use on here

http://www.geni.com/surnames/jordan

Peterd,
Thankyou for those possible extra children, Thomas William definitely ties up.. and Mary Jane may have died as she is not there in 1871? ( see 1871 census below)

1871
Suffolk St, 5 Court 19, Birmingham, Warwickshire, England John JORDAN (58) botanist born Hatton... rest of family born in Birmingham... wife Ellen (41), children.. Agnes(10), Thomas W (9), Catherine Florence(7), Julia (9months)

That geni.com site is interesting too... will have to study that one!

Off on my hols. for a couple of weeks now... so will have to take a break from the 'Ancestry stuff' till I get back

Thanks for the help
Expat

Bit of an update on George JORDAN .... and still a mystery
I have summarised what we have so far for George...with his different names & occupations

1814... birth of George JORDAN..in Hatton, Warwickshire.... parents John JORDAN & Mary COMMANDER ( submitted entry on IGI)
1858... marriage of George JORDAN (35) bachelor..pork butcher..(father John JORDAN) ... to Helen WILKINS (27).. both resident Walsall
1860... birth of daughter Agnes.. 107 Cregoe St, B'ham... George Halford JORDAN... pork butcher..journeyman
1861... birth of son Thomas W .. 107 Cregoe St, B'ham... George JORDAN... pork butcher..journeyman
1871... census.. Suffolk St. 5 Court 19, B'ham.. John JORDAN (58) botanist born Hatton..[i](wife & kids all tie up)
1872... birth of daughter Eliza...Court 19 Sufflok St... Arthur JORDAN.... gardener
death before 1880.... his widow remarried in 1880
Feb 1885... on son Thomas' marriage cert..... listed as George JORDAN ( deceased) herbalist
Sep 1885... on daughter Catherine's marriage certificate... listed as George JORDAN ( deceased) doctor

So... still only managed to find him on one census so far... 1871.
His name and occupation change ... different on kids birth certificates?

There is also another daughter according to the 1871 census.... listed as Julia born 1870 Birmingham.
On the 1901 census this Julia JORDAN may be Selina JORDAN ( aged 30) ... living with her mother... Ellen HOLMES ( now a 70 widow ) in Arnold, Notts.
I found a birth Index record on 'Ancestry' for a Selina JORDAN born 1870... but can't find a Selina or a Julia on 'familysearch'
... I suppose we need her birth certificate really... to see what name there is for her father.

I am puzzled... is this the same man?... or did Ellen ( or Helen) marry another JORDAN?

and where is he on the other censuses?
Any help greatly appreciated!
Expat

Still trying to find George JORDAN on other censuses...there is this one....

George LORDAN on the 1841 census is in Pinley Green, Rowington, Warwickshire
transcribed as 'LORDAN' on 'Ancestry' .... looks like JORDAN to me on the census...this George is a 20 year old butcher born in Warwickshire
.... and knowing that ages were rounded down on the 1841 census I suppose his birthdate could have been any year beween 1817 and 1821.
Maybe this is our George JORDAN?

Expat

expat66 wrote:Still trying to find George JORDAN on other censuses...there is this one....

George LORDAN on the 1841 census is in Pinley Green, Rowington, Warwickshire
transcribed as 'LORDAN' on 'Ancestry' .... looks like JORDAN to me on the census...this George is a 20 year old butcher born in Warwickshire
.... and knowing that ages were rounded down on the 1841 census I suppose his birthdate could have been any year beween 1817 and 1821.
Maybe this is our George JORDAN?

Expat

Expat, Rowinginton is next to Hatton, so it could well be your George, as for the occupations, he could well have changed employment or been a bit of a fantasist, I suppose a Botanist and Herbalist back then could be referred to as a Doctor with a stretch of the imagination. HTH Linell.

Thanks Linell,
Yes... I was thinking the same thing about herbalist/ doctor etc..... practising 'alternative medicine' maybe?... something of a 'medicine man'?
Expat

Well and truly stuck ..... maybe this is a 'brick wall'?
or... perhaps archive for now?
Expat

What would you like doing with this expat?
Archive or brick Wall?