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ARC TBC - o'toole famiily bootle

Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 2:30 pm
by chughes1964
whilst trying to find out about my family from liverpool (hughes and o'toole) a cousin i didnt know about read a post on another site and got in touch his granmother was annie o'toole my grandmothers(veronica) sister, this is what he told me.

There 5 girls, Veronica being the youngest, Margaret (Maggie), Mary, Annie & Kate.
Our great grandma's maiden name was actually Mary Ellen Redmond, she had siblings Tom, Sarah and Marcella. she married James Lawrence O'Toole in Bootle.They owned a grocery shop in Boreland St, Bootle which Mary ran. He worked as a shipping clerk for Howland and Wolfe, he must of been very good at his job as he was R.C. and they only generally employed C.O.E. . They had a pretty good quality of life, some of the girls received private music tuition at home. Mary didnt actually die during child birth, but whilst she was carrying child she died of the 1918 Flu epidemic, and the child died with her, (apparently she may of conceived upto 15 kids, she lost atleast 2 boys and a girl within 10 months of each other.) This was when James placed 2 of their daughters into the convent, my nan Annie and Kate, the other girls remained with him, but he struggled to cope. He did remarry, and his main reason for this was to get the girls out of the convent and back home. We only know her as Mrs. Sutcliffe, who lived in the same street as them and helped out with the kids when james was working, it seems she was quite keen to claim him as hers though, apparently she had said to her neighbours that he would be her next husband and sure enough, she had her way, although it sounds like he only married her out of duty as she claimed she was pregnant, but didnt actually have kids until later in the relationship. Veronica went to live with her aunt Marcella in Elden Rd off Scotland Rd, she couldnt of lived with her aunt Sarah as she was blind and also had a family of her own. My mum remembers going to Aunt Sarahs.
James died 18 months after Mary.left no will and everything he had went to wicked step mother including sovereigns and savings, as she later paid an aunt £25 to take the girls, she had kids of her own who didnt get on with James. And I recently recieved my ggrandparents marriage cert and his fathers names was denis o'toole on the cert he is recorded as being deceased and ocupation as a time keeper, i cannot find anything on any census with denis o'toole, can anyone help.

thanks

chris

Re: o'toole famiily bootle

Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 3:14 pm
by MarkCDodd
Some dates of marriage etc would have been usefull....

If this is them then you are in luck as you now have the maiden name of G G Grandma and GGGGrandads name. (The name is O'toole on the form.)

1851 census transcription details for: 9, Latimir Buildings, Liverpool
National Archive Reference:
RG number: HO107 Piece: 2177 Folio: 668 Page: 24

Reg. District: Liverpool Sub District: St Martins
Parish: Liverpool Enum. District: 1MM
Ecclesiastical District: City/Municipal Borough: Liverpool
Address: 9, Latimir Buildings, Liverpool
County: Lancashire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
FOOLE, Denis C Head Married M 33 1818 Labourer Ireland
FOOLE, Rose Wife Married F 34 1817 Ireland
FOOLE, John Son Unmarried M 7 1844 Lpool Lancashire
FOOLE, Catherine Daughter Unmarried F 1 1850 Lpool Lancashire
MCCABE, Lawrence Father-In-Law Widower M 71 1780 Labourer Ireland

Re: o'toole famiily bootle

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 9:47 am
by chughes1964
thank you very much i am grateful for your help, i am confused as to why the form says o'toole, but the names you have shown say foole.

i only have dates for my g grandparents, my g grandfather was born around 1872 and my grandmother was born around 1871, they were married 11 july 1893 at our ladys of reconciliation liverpool. my g grandmothers maiden name was redmond, i have been able to trace her side back to dublin were here father was born, and settle yorkshire were her grandparents were born.

thanks again

chris

Re: o'toole famiily bootle

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 9:59 am
by grangers14
It has been a transcription error on what Mark looked at to find the family.
Ancestry has it transcribed as Toole.
It looks like Toole on the actual image.

Re: o'toole famiily bootle

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 11:37 am
by chughes1964
thank you,

it is looking promising but i am going to have try and get my g grandfathers birth cert to find out his mothers name, which could be difficult as i only have the year he was born not the date and his fathers name.

thank you again

chris

Re: o'toole famiily bootle

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 1:15 pm
by MarkCDodd
Actually, if you look at the image, the transcibers thought it was Denis C Foole as they mistook the O' for a C and Toole as Foole.

The image on The Genealogist is much better and they have transcibed it correctly.

Re: o'toole famiily bootle

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 1:24 pm
by MarkCDodd
This would be James' second marriage.

Name: O'TOOLE, James
Registration District: Help West Derby
County: Lancashire
Year of Registration: 1919
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Spouse's last name: Sutcliffe
Volume No: Help 8B
Page No: Help 711

Name: SUTCLIFFE, Margaret J
Registration District: West Derby
County: Lancashire
Year of Registration: 1919
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Spouse's last name: O'toole
Volume No: 8B
Page No: 711

I would say this is Margaret's first marriage.

Name: SUTCLIFFE, Alfred
Registration District: West Derby
County: Lancashire
Year of Registration: 1905
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Spouse's last name: Not available before 1912
Volume No: 8B
Page No: 496

Name: SCOTT, Margaret Jane
Registration District: West Derby
County: Lancashire
Year of Registration: 1905
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Spouse's last name: Not available before 1912
Volume No: 8B
Page No: 496

Re: o'toole famiily bootle

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 1:28 pm
by MarkCDodd
And her family in 1911.

1911 census transcription details for: 38 Boreland St Bootle
National Archive Reference:
RG14PN22423 RG78PN1322 RD455 SD5 ED17 SN223

Reg. District: West Derby Sub District: Bootle
Parish: Bootle cum Linacre Enum. District: 17
Address: 38 Boreland St Bootle
County: Lancashire
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born
SUTCLIFFE, Alfred Head Married M 32 1879 General Labourer Lancashire L Pool
SUTCLIFFE, Margaret Jane Wife Married 6 years F 29 1882 Lancashire Bootle
SUTCLIFFE, James Son M 2 1909 Lancashire Bootle

which is a few doors up from James and Mary Ellen.

1911 census transcription details for: 54 Boreland St Bootle
National Archive Reference:
RG14PN22423 RG78PN1322 RD455 SD5 ED17 SN244

Reg. District: West Derby Sub District: Bootle
Parish: Bootle cum Linacre Enum. District: 17
Address: 54 Boreland St Bootle
County: Lancashire
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
O TOOLE, James Head Married M 39 1872 Porter Cotton Liverpool Lancs
O TOOLE, Mary Ellen Wife Married 17 years F 39 1872 Shopkeeper General Liverpool Lancs
O TOOLE, Margaret Daughter F 6 1905 Liverpool Lancs
O TOOLE, Mary Daughter F 6 1905 Liverpool Lancs
O TOOLE, Annie Daughter F 4 1907 Bootle Lpool
O TOOLE, Catherine Daughter F 1 1910 Bootle Lpool
BURNS, Catherine Visitor Widow F 55 1856 Spinner Linen Belfast Resident

Re: o'toole famiily bootle

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 1:35 pm
by MarkCDodd
You might want to try these people as they have transcribed the Catholic records for the region (If only somebody would do that for Worcestershire!!!!).

http://www.mlfhs.org.uk/data/catholic_search.php

In my experience, seeing the Catholic registers can give you fa rmore information than the transcriptions as they often kept notes on the person Baptised. i.e. When and who they married and when they died.

Re: o'toole famiily bootle

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 2:03 pm
by chughes1964
thanks mark
thats a big help, i will give that link a try and see what it comes up with, i have checked the transcript and i agree i does say o'toole,

chris

Re: o'toole famiily bootle

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 10:08 pm
by chughes1964
checked out that link but unfortunately they only cover the manchester area,

chris

Re: o'toole famiily bootle

Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 9:01 pm
by chughes1964
im wandering could this be my g great grandfather in 1881

TOOLE, Catherine Head Widow F 33 1848 Boot Binder Ireland VIEW
TOOLE, Charlotte Daughter Single F 13 1868 Scholar Liverpool
Lancashire VIEW
TOOLE, Catherine Daughter Single F 11 1870 Scholar Liverpool
Lancashire VIEW
TOOLE, James Son Single M 9 1872 Scholar Liverpool
Lancashire VIEW
TOOLE, William Son Single M 3 1878
Liverpool
Lancashire VIEW

i know it says toole not o'toole but maybe the o was dropped, but my g great grandfathers marriage cert his father is deceased, i have searched the bmd but cant find a death year for denis o'toole

chris

Re: o'toole famiily bootle

Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:49 pm
by BC Wench
Is this still a Brickwall, or have you solved it?

Unless otherwise advised this will be moved to the Brickwalls Archived section
within 24 hours