Genealogy Forum UK

I have been shocked by how many of my ancestors had to sign marriage certificates with a 'mark'.... were they all illiterate?
Has anyone on the forum looked at levels of education/ literacy in the Black Country?

When a child is listed as 'scholar' does it mean they actually go to school?... or does it just mean too young to be working?

I'm thinking we have come a long way in 150 years!

Expat

Some of us have studied the Local History of the BC for years and yes they were mostly illiterate until Education became compulsory circa 1890. Scholar was just used as a description the only things these children learnt was how to work a 14 hour day in the most terrible conditions, they were the true heroes of the Industrial age, without them there would have been no great Industrial age, they were employed in factories, mills, chain shops. farms. all over the Country, their conditions really were appalling. It was only after the Factories act circa 1876 and then the Education Act in the 1890's that children's lifes improved, there is a lot of BC History on this site here:-

http://www.cradleylinks.co.uk/whatsnew.htm

HTH From LInell.

Try reading some of these books it may help............

viewtopic.php?f=47&t=4215

Scholar mean they were going to school.

But they did not stay long and many were working full time before they were teens.

They also had very few reasons to use their writing skills so often they could read but writing was something abandoned after schooling was finished.

Literacy was actually higher in the last half of the 18th century and the first two decades of the 19th century than in was in 1860.

The reason being is that when rural the children could stay at school longer and any help needed on the farms was satisfied out of school hours.

The industrial revolution dragged children into full time work and away from schooling so that literacy slowly fell after about 1820.

There were some studies done of convicts arriving in Australia and they showed this trend as well as studies done in the UK.

Social class also had a huge effect on your chances of getting a good education.

>Scholar mean they were going to school<

I disagree with that Mark, the Census Enumerator wrote down Scholar at random, there were no Free Schools in the BC, not until the 1870's and then their parents had to pay one penny a day, Education was not 'free' or compulsory until the 1890's Most of the children we deal with on here, worked in the Nail Shops and Chain Shops in their back gardens. It was only children of the very rich who were the Mill Owners, Factory Owners, Land Owners who were lucky enough to attend Public Schools, but you are talking about a minority. Linell.

This is a description of parts of Dudley, but very typical of anywhere in the Black Country:-


The Mambles King Street:- Fifty to sixty houses, no water. All dirty pallid, diseased, and some idiots. The people complain even in the midst of their filth, of want of water. All so bad as to be indescribable, a man almost dying, a woman with half a face, children devoured with filth, prostitutes and theives. The physical and moral condition of this place is indescribable.

Flood Street:- All drainage on the surface.

Brandy Row:- Mrs Shakespeare says there are 20 bad girls in the Yard. The other Occupants say they cannot get a nights rest, the language is disgusting. The privies very dreadful, some are under a house, no water for any of the houses.

King Street Ravenscroft Yard:-Large quantities of dung and manure, liquid and solids from Stables, much complained of by a poor woman at the bottom of the Street.

Wilkinson's Lane Queens Cross:- No water, a nasty unpaved, unchannelled place with abominable Court Yards, many of the people appear in a filthy barbarous condition, many children with serofula, a very populas neighbourhood, and large families.

Greystone Street:- Back Yards, very foul bad surface, the filth runs all the way down into the High Street.

Shore's Yard:-Very bad pavement, and defective drainage. The Stones are randoms, with very wide joints full of filth. Further up the Yard there are large heaps of refuse and manure in a solid state.

Queens Cross Hill:- has the most abominable privies, and refuse passing under the buildings, the houses are all moving and the coal underneath is on fire.

Mrs Sarah Jones, Pork Butcher:- has drains under her house to the street, filthy black drainage comes through her Yard, causing the most frightful stench.

The Hope Tavern has a cesspool and pump, the refuse is pumped out once a week, and every night when it rains, it then runs along the surface into Stafford Street, and to the corner of the High Street, the smell is very offensive.


Pitts Fold:- A very bad surface, unpaved, stagnant and filthy chanels close to the doors of the houses.

Thank's Linnell, that's really interesting. It makes me extremely glad that I wasn't born 100 years earlier. And makes me proud of my ancestors, as I don't think we would be able to cope with such conditions today.

Thanks for the thankyou Sue, I do try to be accurate as to what life was like before the 20th Century, it is too easy to forget how people especially children suffered so badly. They were beaten and abused, it took years of campaigning, by various notables, (not got their names to hand) before the legislators did anything to improve the condition for children, how some of them were stuck up chimneys and stuffed down Mines is a disgrace. As I read recently the Victorian Children were the back bone of the Industrial age, they did a lot of the graft, without them we wouldn't be living as we are today, those children were Heroes and shouldn't be forgotten. Best Wishes from Linell.

Are there any books you could recomend that give a good idea about living conditions in Victorian England (preferably BC area)?

One thing I've noticed is that while you rarely get an occupation for the wife, most working class women would have had to work just to make ends meet. My nan told me that her father didn't allow her mother to work, but she did without his knowledge. She worked as a cleaner for a local family, and apart from her wages she recieved cast off children's clothes and toys. It makes me wonder how much my gr grandfather had to do with his kids, and if he ever thourght about where their clothes and toys came from. He was very strict so I don't think he suspected that my gr grandmother worked, but she risked his anger to make ends meet.

Interesting descriptions Linell. Makes you wonder how we all came to be here really doesn't it? Our ancesters were made of strong stuff.

linell wrote:Try reading some of these books it may help............

viewtopic.php?f=47&t=4215

Hi Carol and Sue, yes indeed, when you read the history of the Victorian times it is harrowing, I suppose before the Industrial Revolution it was just as bad for children having to work as they did, but at least it would have been out on the land then, sheep rearing and ploughing etc. Rather than the hazardous conditions inside Forges and Mines.

The link lists plenty of books Sue, I know that both Carol and I have bookshelves full!

Best Wishes from Linell.

As far as literacy goes my gr gr grandmother was on the 1911 census as Nurse (certified Midwife), the midwife bit adds up with what my nan told me. At some point I suddenly realised that all of the documents I have where she should have signed, there is only her mark.
I did a bit of research into the midwife proffession and at this point in time you couldn't call yourself a midwife let alone practise as one unless you were registered or certified. Some were certified as part of their training and some had to prove to a board that they were competant. It is inconcievable today that a nurse or midwife would be illiterate, but my gr grandmother couldn't even sign her name!

Just to put a bit of light into the gloom -- there are some cases where they appear to have put their mark but on other documents signed their name -- sometimes the person preparing the document assumed they could not write and they were too in awe of them to contradict!

snoopysue wrote:As far as literacy goes my gr gr grandmother was on the 1911 census as Nurse (certified Midwife), the midwife bit adds up with what my nan told me. At some point I suddenly realised that all of the documents I have where she should have signed, there is only her mark.
I did a bit of research into the midwife proffession and at this point in time you couldn't call yourself a midwife let alone practise as one unless you were registered or certified. Some were certified as part of their training and some had to prove to a board that they were competant. It is inconcievable today that a nurse or midwife would be illiterate, but my gr grandmother couldn't even sign her name!

Goodness Sue, mind you things were much more civilised by 1911, after the Education Act which was 1890 something, life did improve, bet your Gt Gt Grandmother was a great Midwife all the same.

Linell.

The non-conformist Sunday Schools, which became prevalent in 1800's, were also teaching basic literacy to children, and in some cases, I think children were going home and teaching their parents. I have instances in my own family where neither husband or wife could write their own names on their marriage certificates, but by the time their younger children came along, they could sign the birth certificates!