Arthur Rose -
I've got his birth, marriage and death certificates
and also his medal card which doesn't tell us much as it links to a medal roll for the Silver War badge (people who were discharged due to illness).
Re the medal roll it tells a bit more (in that he served overseas) but it doesn't give his unit/battalion which is what is needed now to get more information. Rellie made a trip to the Royal Warwickshire Regiment museum and they confirmed that without his battalion details we could go no further.
Rellie tried to find his individual service details but as you probably know many of the individual records were burnt in the second world war
and they trawled through all the ones that were left and couldn't find his.
He died on 3rd April 1919. full military funeral
newspaper article may mention unit.
Arthur Rose was an army pensioner
He would have had quite a few medals and my Grandma said that he gave these to his kids.
I think there is a medal roll for an A. Rose in the Boer War but I'm not sure it is him
He did serve in the Boer war and I remember Grandma said that he had some medals with bars on them.
War commission grave at St Lukes..no longer there
(Info from a cousin)
We have a copy of a medal roll for the silver war badge.
Arthur is listed there with the same service number as on the war memorial and it says that he was discharged due to sickness
and gives enlistment date and discharge date.
The right hand column is a Yes/No answer to did he serve overseas.
Arthur has Yes in his line, they all have yes actually.
Now Arthur also had a medal card and a researcher "Tom" says that the format of his medal card is the one usually used for men who did not serve overseas. So either he did serve overseas in WW1 but they used the wrong type of medal card for him, or he didn't serve overseas, they used the right medal card type, but entered Yes instead of No on the medal roll.
Wondering if he stayed in the UK in WW1 but they answered Yes to overseas service due to a mixup because he was in the army previously.
Just a guess, which ever way it is the info is slightly at odds with itself here.
My Gran said he was at Mafeking and Ladysmith
Beardie got involved with this too...
"The images you sent me only shows a silver war badge card for your arthur rose.
I cannot see a medal index card for him!
This might mean that he did not serve abroad . He might have stayed in the UK training new troops or in home defence.
I don't think the Warwicks were involved in the relief of Mafeking or Ladysmith, I have a history of the Warwicks regiment"
If Beardie is right that the warwicks were not at Mafeking or Ladysmith and gran was right that he got medals for both
then probably he was in a different regiment for the Boar War.
info from Tom researcher
"Please find enclosed a CD containing copies of Arthur's SWB index card and roll. As you are already aware the roll shows Arthur having had overseas service, enlisting 11/8/14 and being discharged 13/2/19 due to sickness.
Under normal circumstances (i.e. most commonly) you would expect a man with WW1 service medal qualification to have the code for his SWB marked onto a “normal†service medal index card, but occasionally one does find these SWB cards over-stamped with a partial index card facsimile of the section which carries the codes for the service medals. A card in the format of Arthur's is normally used for a man with no qualifying overseas service and hence no service medal entitlement. Every researcher who uses the WW1 service card system is well aware however that there are deficiencies and errors in the system, especially cards which seem simply not to exist for men who are proven to have medal entitlement (and the medals issued), and the notorious “split†cards where the clerk will have recorded a man's Star entitlement as, say, “J Smith†and the clerk later trying to add BW & V Medal entitlement will may have been given a list naming the man as John Smith, and will fail to find the original card because he didn't look under “Jâ€Â, etc.
I don't think I have ever knowingly come across a case where an SWB card has been raised in complete isolation from a service medal card; certainly I've never before seen the “plain†SWB card lead to an SWB roll answering “yes†to there having been overseas service. There's always a first time though. I'll pick up on this point in a moment.
Unfortunately no service record survives, - the relevant National Archives (PRO) film references were (burned series) WO363/R1447, R1448, and misfile film No 105, (unburned series) WO364/3401, 4914, and 5615 (there is no applicable film in the so-called “3rd collation†misfiles series of papers, - the name falls between two films).
Going back to the medals. “Not finding†service medal cards is not an unusual occurrence. Many are misfiled, names are miss-spelt, numbers incorrectly recorded, etc, etc, etc. Clerks have always made mistakes ! There are however ways of working round a lost / incorrect / miss-filed card, but in this case I haven't been able to get anywhere:-
o With the new digital database it is possible to “wildcard†searches. I've tried various variations without success though # forename ar(wildcard) + surname ro(wildcard) + Warwickshire finds Arthur and about seventy odd others # surname ro(wildcard) + 3715 finds seven incl Arthur ---.. but none of the combinations I tried came up with anything looking like a “duplicate†card for the correct Arthur.
o Go straight to the medal rolls and look for the man in sequences of names in alphabetical order. This doesn't work with some regiments because there rolls are completely out of alphabetic sequence, but the Warwick's Star rolls tend to be set out in repeating alpha sequences, and their BW & V rolls are to all intents and purposes compiled in sections according to the first couple of letters of the surnames. This method isn't foolproof however because occasionally a man would be put on a roll in a sequence where he “shouldn't†be, and you wont find him unless you read every single page, which would be horrendously time-consuming.
o I have been through the five 1914 and 1914-15 rolls for the regiment and I cannot see Arthur.
o There are twenty-six BW & V rolls for the regiment and by fishing through them I tied down the names beginning “Ro†to roll WO329/754. Still cant see him, though I did get a bit excited when on folio 6065 I found 3708 Arthur Rose of 2nd Battalion. A little research on him quickly established that he was Kia 25/9/15, so the possible “error†evaporated.
.........as to what the story might be with Arthur. It could be as simple as a typo on the roll; a “yes†for overseas service instead of a “noâ€Â, and we are chasing medal records which don't exist (remember that men who didn't serve overseas had no WW1 service medal entitlement). Alternatively Arthur could have served overseas and somehow not been placed on the regiment's service medal rolls.
My own instinct, given his age and the fact that he had previous military service and could therefore have been useful in a training capacity, - and then the fact that with an enlistment so very early in the war you would expect that if he did have overseas service he would have been sent out early enough to qualify of a 1914 or 1914-15 Star,(*) - is that home service is a distinct possibility. (* The Star and BW&V rolls were not compiled at the same time, so to be omitted from one of the two would be an unfortunate error, but to be omitted from both ---.).
I could of course be wrong.
I'm sorry that this hasn't been more positive as far as a surviving service record is concerned. Please let me know if you have any queries, or if any other “evidence†comes to light.
Yours sincerely,
Tom
(Tom Tulloch- Marshall )
http://www.btinternet.com/~prosearch/