Genealogy Forum UK

I am researching the whale Family from 1801 to present. The family research starts with JOHN PROVIDENT WHALE b: 1801 Ashmansworth, Hampshire. He married SARAH BURKETT b: 1811 in Landbeach, Cambridge. They married in 1828 in Whitechapel, London. The family resided in the East and South London, (Battersea, Wandsworth, Mile End Stepney, Shoreditch) I have records of most of the descendants but I am having problems with locating two of the children,s marriages.
Joseph Jonas Whale b: 24th Dec 1847 and Anne (Ann) Whale born 1834. I know that Ann was married as the 1871 census indicates she was widowed but I can not find any record of marriage or a spouse name. I believe she had a son called James b: 1864.
It would be of great help if I could find the names of Joseph and Anne's spouse names and dates of marriage. There is a record of Joseph Whale marrying a Mary Anne Elizabeth Dodds but I believe this is not the same Joseph.
Any information would be gratefully received.
Thank you
Mark.

I have added the name Whale to the surname list and split and moved this to Gen
discussion for further help for you.

joseph ?

Marriages Mar 1872

Ayling Cornelius Chelsea 1a 299
BOYS Annie Eliza Chelsea 1a 299
Chevalier Louisa Chelsea 1a 299
Whale Joseph Chelsea 1a 299

poss 1881

1881: 5 Stonebridge Place, London, Middlesex

Joseph WHALE 33 Mile End, Middlesex, Book Maker
Mary Ann WHALE 21 Bethnal Green, Middlesex, (poss wrong age anyone check on image ?)
Mary Ann WHALE 2 Hackney, Middlesex,
William Jam. WHALE 9 Bethnal Green, Middlesex,

does ann have middle name ?

Marriages Jun 1856
EISELE Rebekah Louisa Shoreditch 1c 393
WEEKS George Shoreditch 1c 393
WHALE Ann Matilda Shoreditch 1c 393
WILSON James Shoreditch 1c 393

The information I have found on Joseph Whale is:

1851: Living with John (father), Sarah (mother), Anne (sister), Isaac (Brother), William (Brother) Amelia (sister) John (brother) Joseph was 4 yrs old.
They were living at 9 Portman Terrace, Globe Road, Stepney.

1861 census: I could not find any information on any of the family for this census?

1871 census: Living with Sarah, Sarah (sister),James (I believe this could be his sister Anne's (b1834) son?) I thought that this could be Joseph's but a search on James reveals him being Anne's. They were living at 3 Albion Place, Bethnal Green.

!881 census: Living with Mary Anne (wife), Mary Anne (daughter), William James (son) They were living at 3 Stonebridge Place, Hackney.

1891 census: Living with Mary Anne, Mary Anne (Daughter), Joseph (Son), Florence (Daughter), Ella M (Daughter) And Ada (Daughter) They were living at 4 Clarissa Street, shoreditch.

1901 census: the name on this is Joseph, Mary, Florence, Henry (Born since last census), Albert (born since last census) Charles (born since last census) and Rose 12? If this is the same family, Why was Rose not mentioned on last census? They were living at same address as 1891 census.

My problem is, What was Mary Anne's maiden name and when and where did they marry? I can not find any records on this. I believe this was between 1871 and 1881. I did find a Mary Anne Elizabeth Dobbs that shows her family lived in Globe Road, as per my family did in the 1851 census but her age does not fit. She did marry a Joseph Whale but believe this to be a different man. To add to my woes, in the 1881 census, Mary Anne was 21 and the youngest son was 9. That would only make her 12 when he was born? Or, is he a son from a previous relationship or marriage with Joseph?. I just can't get my head round this.
Maybe if one of my new found friends here, could look at all this and give me an opinion, looking at it from different eyes and mind.
I feel that this is my relative but just can't be totally sure?
I would be very grateful for any help on this.

Wrong Father for Joseph.

Joseph Whale. (Silk Spinner) 4. Turk St.
Age: 24.
Estimated birth year: abt 1858.
Spouse Name: Mary Ann Elizabeth Dodds. 8 Abbey St.
Spouse Age: 19.
Record Type: Marriage.
Marriage Date: 10 Apr 1882.
Parish: St Thomas, Bethnal Green.
County: Middlesex.
Borough: Tower Hamlets.
Father Name: William Whale. (Turner.)
Spouse Father Name: Joshua Dodds. (Silk dyer.)

markwhale46 wrote:1871 census: Living with Sarah, Sarah (sister),James (I believe this could be his sister Anne's (b1834) son?) I thought that this could be Joseph's but a search on James reveals him being Anne's. They were living at 3 Albion Place, Bethnal Green.

Can you post the full details of this census.

Jimmy wrote:

markwhale46 wrote:1871 census: Living with Sarah, Sarah (sister),James (I believe this could be his sister Anne's (b1834) son?) I thought that this could be Joseph's but a search on James reveals him being Anne's. They were living at 3 Albion Place, Bethnal Green.

Can you post the full details of this census.

I found it,

markwhale46 wrote:1891 census: Living with Mary Anne, Mary Anne (Daughter), Joseph (Son), Florence (Daughter), Ella M (Daughter) And Ada (Daughter) They were living at 4 Clarissa Street, shoreditch.

1901 census: the name on this is Joseph, Mary, Florence, Henry (Born since last census), Albert (born since last census) Charles (born since last census) and Rose 12? If this is the same family, Why was Rose not mentioned on last census? They were living at same address as 1891 census.

My problem is, What was Mary Anne's maiden name and when and where did they marry? I can not find any records on this. I believe this was between 1871 and 1881. I did find a Mary Anne Elizabeth Dobbs that shows her family lived in Globe Road, as per my family did in the 1851 census but her age does not fit. She did marry a Joseph Whale but believe this to be a different man. To add to my woes, in the 1881 census, Mary Anne was 21 and the youngest son was 9. That would only make her 12 when he was born? Or, is he a son from a previous relationship or marriage with Joseph?. I just can't get my head round this.
Maybe if one of my new found friends here, could look at all this and give me an opinion, looking at it from different eyes and mind.
I feel that this is my relative but just can't be totally sure?
I would be very grateful for any help on this.

Hi Mark
Rose in 1901 is down as aged 2 on the image. At some point an office worker has gone through ticking the ages so there appears to be a "1" in front of the numbers and it has been mistranscribed as 12.

So the ages in 1901 are:

Joseph 50
Mary 41
Florence 17
Henry 8
Albert 7
Charles 4
Rose 2

and in 1891:

Joseph 40
Mary Ann 30
Mary Ann 12
Joseph 9
Florence 7
Elle M 4
Ada S 2

--------------
Mary Ann bpt 2 Feb 1883, Joseph and Mary Ann Whale, 4 Stevens St, boot maker; Haggerston All Saints, Hackney
Joseph bpt 2 Feb 1883, Joseph and Mary Ann Whale, 4 Stevens St, boot maker; Haggerston All Saints, Hackney
Florence bpt Feb 10th 1884 , Joseph and Mary Ann Whale, 15 Brownlow St, boot maker; Haggerston All Saints, Hackney
Lilly bpt 30th Oct 1885, Joseph and Mary Ann Whale, 52 Loander St? bootmaker; Haggerston All Saints, Hackney
Ella Maud bpt 4th Feb 1887, Joseph and Mary Ann Margaret Whale, 4 Loanda St, boot maker; Haggerston All Saints, Hackney
Ada Sarah bpt 9th Nov 1888, Joseph and Mary Ann Whale, 4 Loande St, boot maker; Haggerston All Saints, Hackney


It all seems to fit except that 9 yearold on 1881.
And no marriage, as you say.

1881 could that 9 year old be 9 months ? anyone check the image ?

1881

Definitely 9 in years column

BUT
WIlliam James is below Mary Ann who is 2 years old

This is unusualy unless he was son from before marriage when they sometimes put legitimate younger sisters from the current marriage first

have you got this and does it help?

1911 4 Clarissa St Haggerston
WHALE, Joseph Head Married 33 years M 63 1848 Boot Repairer London Whitechapel
WHALE E, Mary Ann Wife Married 33 years F 51 1860 London Bethnal Green
WHALE, Florence Daughter Single F 27 1884 Ruler London Hakcney
WHALE, Maud Daughter Single F 24 1887 Wire Sticthing London Shoreditch
WHALE, Ada Daughter Single F 22 1889 Playing Card Examiner London Shoreditch
WHALE, Albert Son Single M 16 1895 Wood Sawyer London Shoreditch
WHALE, Charles Son M 14 1897 Assistant Cycle Enamelling And Plating London Shoreditch
WHALE, Rose Daughter F 12 1899 School London Shoreditch


13 children 9 still living

Maths girl wrote:1881

Definitely 9 in years column

BUT
WIlliam James is below Mary Ann who is 2 years old

This is unusualy unless he was son from before marriage when they sometimes put legitimate younger sisters from the current marriage first

poss ?

Births Jun 1871
Whale James Bethnal Green 1c 202

nearest i could find under whale ?

Maths girl wrote:have you got this and does it help?

1911 4 Clarissa St Haggerston
WHALE, Joseph Head Married 33 years M 63 1848 Boot Repairer London Whitechapel
WHALE E, Mary Ann Wife Married 33 years F 51 1860 London Bethnal Green
WHALE, Florence Daughter Single F 27 1884 Ruler London Hakcney
WHALE, Maud Daughter Single F 24 1887 Wire Sticthing London Shoreditch
WHALE, Ada Daughter Single F 22 1889 Playing Card Examiner London Shoreditch
WHALE, Albert Son Single M 16 1895 Wood Sawyer London Shoreditch
WHALE, Charles Son M 14 1897 Assistant Cycle Enamelling And Plating London Shoreditch
WHALE, Rose Daughter F 12 1899 School London Shoreditch


13 children 9 still living

wonder if this is the marriage his 2nd ?

Marriages Sep 1879

Brown Ada Susanna Wandsworth 1d 856
LEGGETT Charles Henry Wandsworth 1d 856
SUMNER Dorcas Mary Wandsworth 1d 856
WHALE Joseph Wandsworth 1d 856