Genealogy Forum UK

Hi,

Please could somebody help me?

I am trying to trace a death record or anything about my Great Grandfather Frank Cross who was born in 1905 in East Grinstead, Sussex.

The information I have on him is he was born illegitimately and was a 'nurse child' living with a family called 'Benneyworths' in Hailsham. He got married at the age of 20 in 1924 to a Violet Miriam Hall and they had 4 children, Frank, Ruby and Stanley and my Grandfather born in 1932. It says on the marriage certificate that Frank was a Gunner in the Royal Artillery and his rank number is 738154. On (son) Frank's birth certificate in 1925 and Ruby's birth certificate in 1928 he is shown as a 'General Labourer'. On Stanley's birth certificate he is a gardener (nursery) and on my Grandfather's certificate in 1932 he is a General Labourer living in Chalvington.

My Grandfather was brought up in a children's home with his brothers and sister Ruby up to the start of WW2 when he was evacuated and thinks the reason they were in a children's home was because Frank was killed in a war (possibly by suicide) and that was when they were admitted. I have looked at my Grandfather's birth certificate and he was born at the children's home he stayed in so if what he says is true then it appears Frank was already dead by March 1932.

This is where my brick wall is, I have searched the BMD registers numerous times for his death between 1925 and 1945 but have come up with nothing. I paid the GRO in Liverpool to search for me and they found nothing but they say that even if had committed suicide, his death would have to be recorded. I thought perhaps he had been called up in WW2 and killed at the start so I sent a form to the Ministry of Defence for release of his service record with that rank number but they have come back to say that they need proof of his death before they can supply me with information.

Is it possible that he could still have been in the army despite him being a 'general labourer/gardener'? Was there a war abroad in the early 1930's that he could have been involved in? Please could someone advise what a nurse child is?

The only other evidence I have is I have obtained a further marriage certificate of Violet and her condition is 'widow' and this is 1943.

Do you know if the National Archives would hold any records or would this be too recent? Please could someone advise where I could obtain any more information?

Thank you
Michelle

Only Frank Cross Found died ww2
Name: Frank CROSS Memorial Scroll

Branch at death: Royal Artillery

Regiment, Corps etc.: Royal Artillery

Branch at 01/09/39:

Regiment, Corps etc.:

Last name: Cross

First name(s): Frank

Initials: F

Birthplace: Surrey

Residence: Surrey

Rank: Gunner

Number: 1832731

Date died: 25 October 1944

Theatre of war: India

Hi Mumbles,

Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately I have investigated this Frank Cross and he has got a different family and different parents. I was convinced this was him when I first saw it but unfortunately its not him.

Thank you again.
Michelle

there should be some info ask in the military section as this looks like his serial no

that Frank was a Gunner in the Royal Artillery and his rank number is 738154.

they might be able to trace him through that im not sure but if he did rejoin the army he would keep the same no ?

You did not always keep your regimental number, even during the duration of a conflict. I have WW1 vets with three regimental numbers...

There was also no checking to verify your name on enlistment.

Many men used aliases on joining.

As for proving he is dead...is there not an assumption at 105 years of age he is dead as long as you have proof of his birth date and your relationship to him?

Nurse Child is what we would call a Foster Child.

The foster agreement usually involves payment by the family or a charitiable organisation.

Sometimes children were abandoned when the funds run out or simply returned to their orphanage/institution they came from.

Until the governement started taking resposibility for such children, the fostering family often changed the name of the child.

I have several in my tree that I see coming in an out of an orphanage to different families and are enrolled with varying names at different schools.

Hi,

Thanks for your replies, the information is helpful and I agree with you about his proof of death, I think the information should be released regardless.

Just one thought that has crossed my mind, you said that many men used alliases on joining, do you know why this was? I have a 2nd marriage certificate of Violet who got re-married in 1943 to someone called Frank Harris Roberts - another General Labourer and Violet is stated as a Rivettor in an Aircraft factory. He is 43 at the time of marriage but I'm unable to trace a birth record or any records on his father. What is also a little strange is that my mum's cousin (who remembers Frank Roberts as a little girl) said that she always thought Frank Roberts was her Grandfather and didn't realise that it was somebody different.

This leads me onto think is it possible Frank Cross changed his name, his birth year and got re-married to Violet? Was he actually 39 and not 43 as an attempt at not be called up?

Am I just getting over-imaginative with this??

Thanks again.

The reasons for aliases I have seen (when signing up) have sometimes been logical. i.e They have a foreign sounding name and do not want that to influence how other members of the armed forces treat them.

(I just watched a fantastic documentary on Germans who fled Germany and fought as members of the British Military during WWII. Every single one of the servicemen in the documentary changed their name on enlistment. Of the 10,000 who fought with the British, over 90% changed their name to avoid prejudice and as some protection if they were captured by the Germans.).

Other times it has been underage people who wanted to minimise the chance of being found out.

One of my relatives used an alias when he failed the medical at one recruiting centre and re-applied at another and passed.

Another I investigated left behind some illegitimate children and did not want his pay docked. He was found out a few years into the war and was forced to pay maintenance.

Some of the Aliases are amusing. On the search sites for Australian servicemen they have a list of soldiers suspected to be using aliases.

Some are odvious such as Napoleon Bonapart (I kid you not!) and Genghis Khan.

Thank you for clarifying about why they used allias names, the information you have given is very helpful, I have another lead which I am going to follow to see if that brings anything up, I found it interesting and suprising about the names they used especially about the 10,000 men who used alliases in the army.

Thank you again.
Michelle