Genealogy Forum UK

Who is this woman!!

RF has done a look up ....

rockyfowler wrote:25 Jan 1874 St Giles Rowley Regis
Samuel Tromans 48 widower Labourer Newtown Father Isaac Tromans Nailer
Mary Ann Billingham 50 widow Fourways Father Joseph Gill Miner
Wit; Joseph Tromans X Nancy Hingley X

we are ok on the Samuel Tromans we know who he is and I am going to fill in the info on that one
topic on him is locked at moment

We know that it isnt the Mary Gill with father Daniel that married John Billingham as
that Mary is with him on the 1871 ...here...

1871 Census
Tibbetts Gardens, Rowley regis
John Billingham, head, 49, Chain maker
Mary, wife, 48, Dudley
James, son, 24, Chain maker
Henry, son, 19, Chain maker
Sylvia, daur, 17, chain maker
Selina, daur, 15, Cghain maker
Alfred, son, 12,
Maryann, daur, 9,
John, son, 7
All others born Rowley regis



and our Mary that marries Samuel Tromans....is here...with Hannah Tilly next door


1871 census
Sheffield? Street, kingswinford
Mary A Billingham, head, W, 52
Joseph, Holt? son, 18, Coal miner, Kingswinford
Edward Holt?, son, 16
Thomas Holt, son, 14
Patience Holt, daur, 12
Elisha Holt, son, 10
All others born Dudley

The house previous has,
Hannah Gill, head, W, 69, Dudley


1881 Census
132 Congreaves Road, Rowley regis
Samuel Tromans, head, 55, Labourer, Cradley Heath
Mary A, wife, 58, Dudley
Prudence, daur, 16, Newtown
Samuel, son, 10, Newtown
Hannah Tilly, wifes sister, W, 80, Dudley

1891 Census
188 High Strett, Rowley regis
Samuel Troman, head, 65, general labourer, Rowley Regis
Mary Ann, wife, 67, Dudley
Samule, son, 20, Chain maker, Dudley

1901 Census
Cokelans Place, Rowley Regis,
Samuel Tromans, head, W, 75, retired on own means
Hannah, daur, 34, Chain Maker
Samuel, son, 30, Chain maker
All born Rowley Regis

Yes...looks like it

which is odd

we have a thread for Hannah so anything on Hannah post on that one
keep this one for Mary ann

this is a complicated one...

Possible. Extracted.
MARY ANNE GILL.
Christening, 27 DEC 1821. Brierley Hill, Stafford.
Parents:
JOS GILL.
NANCY.

I hadnt noticed earlier but on the 1881 census in the same household of Tromans is
Thomas Holt, head, 26, Chain Maker, Dudley
Sophia, wife, 24, Cradley Heath
Alice, daur, 5, Cradley Heath
Elizabeth, 3, Cradley Heath
Mary Jan, daur, 1, Cradley Heath


marriage 1877 HOLT Thomas PITCHFORD Sophia Cradley Heath, St Luke Sandwell Register Office 20/1/366

So she must have been Gill, then Holt then Billingham then Troman???

I think we need that census in 1871 for Hannah Gill I wonder if that is her mother or ever step mother

if that Hannah on the 1871 is ours which it must be
then we are chasing the wrong Hannah

those kids on that census do we have any bapts for them
who is father?

??
1861 Census
Simms? Lane, Dudley,
Maryann Holt, head, W, 36, Holly Hall dudley
Emma, daur, 20, Nailer, Holly Hall Dudley
Elisha, son, 16, Coal Miner, Holly Hall dudley
William, son, 13, Coal Miner, Brierly Hill
Maryann, daur, 11, Brierly Hill, Cripple
Joseph, son, 9, Brierly Hill
Thomas, son, 6, Holly Hall Dudley
Patience, daur, 4, Holly Hall Dudley
Elizabeth, daur, 21 months?, Holly Hall Dudley
Charles Howard, visitor, 40 , Dudley

why Holt

poss....

1841
GILL Emma S Dudley Dudley Register Office DUD/010/447


1861
GILL Elisha W Dudley Dudley Register Office DUD/083/320

1851 census
Locks Lane, Kingswinford
William Holt, head, 33, Coal Miner, Oldswinford
Mary, wife, 30, Holly Hall, Dudley
Emma, daur, 10, Holly Hall, Dudley
Elisha, son, 5, Kingswinford
William, son, 2, Kingswinford
Mary Ann, daur, 8 months, Kingswinford
John Hill, visitor, 1, ?, Holly Hall, Dudley

so we have...

1851 census
Locks Lane, Kingswinford
William Holt, head, 33, Coal Miner, Oldswinford
Mary, wife, 30, Holly Hall, Dudley
Emma, daur, 10, Holly Hall, Dudley
Elisha, son, 5, Kingswinford
William, son, 2, Kingswinford
Mary Ann, daur, 8 months, Kingswinford
John Hill, visitor, 1, ?, Holly Hall, Dudley


1861 Census
Simms? Lane, Dudley,
Maryann Holt, head, W, 36, Holly Hall dudley
Emma, daur, 20, Nailer, Holly Hall Dudley
Elisha, son, 16, Coal Miner, Holly Hall dudley
William, son, 13, Coal Miner, Brierly Hill
Maryann, daur, 11, Brierly Hill, Cripple
Joseph, son, 9, Brierly Hill
Thomas, son, 6, Holly Hall Dudley
Patience, daur, 4, Holly Hall Dudley
Elizabeth, daur, 21 months?, Holly Hall Dudley
Charles Howard, visitor, 40 , Dudley

1871 census
Sheffield? Street, kingswinford
Mary A Billingham, head, W, 52
Joseph, Holt? son, 18, Coal miner, Kingswinford
Edward Holt?, son, 16
Thomas Holt, son, 14
Patience Holt, daur, 12
Elisha Holt, daur, 10
All others born Dudley

The house previous has,
Hannah Gill, head, W, 69, Dudley

on the 1881 census in the same household of Tromans is
Thomas Holt, head, 26, Chain Maker, Dudley
Sophia, wife, 24, Cradley Heath
Alice, daur, 5, Cradley Heath
Elizabeth, 3, Cradley Heath
Mary Jan, daur, 1, Cradley Heath


marriage 1877 HOLT Thomas PITCHFORD Sophia Cradley Heath, St Luke Sandwell Register Office 20/1/366

1881 Census
132 Congreaves Road, Rowley regis
Samuel Tromans, head, 55, Labourer, Cradley Heath
Mary A, wife, 58, Dudley
Prudence, daur, 16, Newtown
Samuel, son, 10, Newtown
Hannah Tilly, wifes sister, W, 80, Dudley

Is that the same Mary
I think it is the same household but maybe diff marys

WILLIAM HOLT
Marriages:
Spouse: MARY SIDAWAY
Marriage: 25 DEC 1837 Old Swinford, Worcester,
Extracted marriage

are they on the 1841

she is Mary on 1851
yet Mary Ann on 1861
and something doesnt add up

??
Marriage 1837 HOLT William SIDAWAY Mary Oldswinford, St Mary Dudley Register Office 003/001/57

WILLIAM HOLT MARY SIDAWAY
Marriage: 25th DEC 1837 Old Swinford, Worcester

added that for look up as urgent

but I think they are different marys
I dont think Mary ann married William Holt

do we have a regis birth or bapt for those kids in 1851

cos that later Elisha is deffo a Gill

1857
HOLT Patience Dudley Dudley Register Office DUD/066/70

1861
GILL Elisha W Dudley Dudley Register Office DUD/083/320

I think that Patience and perhaps that Elizabeth on the 1861 are the first Marys and she dies
and then mary ann moves in

so Elisha is born 1861