Genealogy Forum UK

I was just reading about George Smith, the hangman, on here http://www.blackcountrybugle.co.uk/blac ... ?id=478389
It says:

....He appeared before the court in a garment of that description, said to be the same as that in which he officiated in the capacity of Jack Ketch at Stafford.” Jack Ketch was a euphemism used for the gallows in the 19th century, named after the notorious John Ketch, executioner employed by King Charles II in the 17th century.

So then I looked at BCC to see what we have on George Smith on there. Then I search on here and found a post by Linell viewtopic.php?f=47&t=1456&start=0&hilit=hangman
where she reports a Weslyan meeting in 1818:

"There were present at that meeting, Mrs Baker the young woman mentioned, her mother in law, Mr J Baker, Jack Ketch the hangman for Worcester, a little boy with a dog, this was the first religious meeting held in Lye by the Wesleyan Methodists."

So now I'm confused (not unusual) because if the Bugle is right and Jack Ketch was a euphemism for the gallows then how come a bloke called Jack Ketch turned up at Lin's meeting?

<LOL> Kate, it wasn't my meeting, I just reported the facts...................a coincidenc perhaps, maybe this lad was known as Jack Ketch a nickname, we know they all had them. Will have a look for him on the Census, Linell.

No Ketch's in Worcs or Staffs 1841. But this 'Meeting' was 1818, anything could have happened to them by 1841.

I think that Jack Ketch was probably used in a variety of ways that linked to a hanging -- it was possible that at that time lots of hangmen were nicknamed Jack Ketch - or it was used in the sense of --- "If you are not careful you will be going to see Jack Ketch" -- which could imply a person ie the hangman as well as a euphemism for the galllows themselves.

The Weslyan notes say "Jack Ketch the hangman" and this could have referred to a local nickname or even to give him annonimity.

I'm thinking of how the Americans refer to a corpse of an unknown person as a John Doe but that this doesn't mean that there aren't some men who are actually called John Doe.

Hi Mathsgirl
I did wonder if that might be the answer - that it was a nickname for a hangman. Perhaps it was a pall of George Smith's then.

Hi Lin
I wasn't very clear was I? Didn't mean to suggest that you were old enough to hold a meeting in 1818

That's ok Kate, made me laugh anyway Interesting topic though, will have to look into Jack Ketch a bit more. Best Wishes from Lin.

went searching on Wikipedia --

As a result, the term Jack Ketch is also used:

- as the name of every hangman after Ketch, to hide their identity;
- as a proverbial name for death or, sometimes, Satan;
- as a euphemism for the gallows;
-as the name of the hangman in the traditional version of Punch and Judy.
The knot more commonly known as a hangman's knot is also sometimes known as Jack Ketch's knot.

Thanks Mg
So now we know that! No wonder there are no Jack Ketch-es in the census! I bet Mr and Mrs Ketch avoided that first name
This is done now. Thanks again.