Genealogy Forum UK

I have hit a bit of a brick wall.

I am looking information on the birth of William Staniforth born 1835 +/- 1 in Middlesex, Chelsea. I have his marriage certificate from 1858 in Cardiff where he marries Rosa Courtney Thomas. William's father is listed as John Staniforth, Grocer, but he was not a witness so maybe not present or deceased?

William Staniforth appears on the 1841 census (aged 7) living with a family called Down in the parish of St Lukes Chelsea. No idea why he is with this family. He is still living with them (classed as a lodger) in Wales 1851 census. I have traced him on all the cenus records with his wife and children unitl 1901 but can't get anything on his birth as this is before records began.

I suspect maybe his parents died and he was taken in by the Down family? Maybe John Staniforth died sometime between 1835 and 1841?

I have looked at Parish Records for St Lukes Chelsea to find William's birth but found nothing so maybe he was not born in that parish. All I know is it said Middlesex, Chelsea (but no parish).

Where do I go from here? With no record of his baptism how do I find his parents.

Thanks

Hi,

Probably not amazingly helpful, but if you're really stuck, there's also a William Staniforth in St.Luke's workhouse in the 1881 census. If you've run out of other avenues to investigate, it might be worth trying to trace the workhouse William further back, as he's around the right age that he might possibly have been John's brother.

Dominic

Dominic

Thank you for that reply. That does seem likely doesn't it. There were a few Staniforths around but mainly common in the Derbyshire and Yorkshire areas, not many in London. If this Staniforth was in St Lukes parish then that's seems a good bet to me. I did a lot of looking through the censuses but don't recall ever coming across that one in 1881.

I have been to the London Metropolitan Archives but I don't recall looking through workhouse records. Does the workhouse have a particular name or is it just called St Lukes Workhouse? You mentioned his age, did it give any other information apart from his name and age? How old was this William Staniforth in 1881?

I don't have much free time at the moment but when I have time to take it up again I may pursue that avenue.

Thank you for your help.
dinks

there this one in 1881

71 Westland St, London, Middlesex,

William A. STANFORD 47 Pimlico, Middlesex, Coachman
Louise STANFORD 46 Lambeth, Surrey,

there also this one born in london, lived in wales back to london back to wales?

1881 census 29 Crwys Rd, Cardiff St John, Glamorgan,

William STANIFORTH Head46 London, Middlesex, Joiner
Rosa STANIFORTH Wife 46 Cardiff, Glamorgan,
William STANIFORTH 18 Cardiff, Glamorgan, Assistant School Master
Ernest STANIFORTH 15 Cardiff, Glamorgan, Chemists Assistant
Sidney STANIFORTH 13 London, Middlesex, Scholar
Lillian STANIFORTH 11 London, Middlesex, Scholar
Arthur STANIFORTH 7 Cardiff, Glamorgan, Scholar
Gertrude STANIFORTH 4 Cardiff, Glamorgan,

so this is him then ?

you got the marriage cert as this looks possible


Marriages Sep 1858

Huggins Ann Cardiff
Pardy Charles Cardiff
Staniforth William Cardiff
Thomas Rosa Courtney Cardiff

Yes I have the marriage certificate of Rosa and William. I have tracked him and Rosa and their children all the way to 1901 census. It's Williams birth/baptism I can't get information on as it's before record began. Having searched the St Lukes parish records I came up with no mention of him.

His dad was John Staniforth, grocer (as listed on the marriage cert) but he may have been dead by then (but deceased was not written). He wasn't a witness though.

Thanks

who were the witness and where in 1861 census were they ?

dinky73 wrote:I have been to the London Metropolitan Archives but I don't recall looking through workhouse records. Does the workhouse have a particular name or is it just called St Lukes Workhouse? You mentioned his age, did it give any other information apart from his name and age? How old was this William Staniforth in 1881?

From what I can see, it looks as though it was probably just referred to as St.Luke Workhouse, Chelsea. If you search the London Generations database at http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/londonGenerations/ it seems as though admission and discharge records do still exist (some others were fire damaged during the war IIRC). I've contacted the London Generations web team before now and had a really helpful response, so they might be worth speaking to for further guidance.

There's a census transcript at http://www.workhouses.org.uk/index.html?Chelsea/Chelsea1881.shtml. The only information is age, occupation (plasterer) and place of birth, Lancashire.

peterd, the witnesses were John Morris and the mark of Susan Lloyd.

I have wondered if Susan Lloyd was previously Susan Down (one of the Down family's daughters who William lived with when he was 7 and moved to Wales with).

I must admit I have not checked where these witnesses were in the 1861 census or if there is a record of Susan Down getting married to a Lloyd. I suppose as they didn't help find out much about Williams birth i didn't pursue it.

My subscription to Ancestry expired last year so I haven't been on in some time to look at the censuses.

Thanks
dinks

admin wrote:

dinky73 wrote:I have been to the London Metropolitan Archives but I don't recall looking through workhouse records. Does the workhouse have a particular name or is it just called St Lukes Workhouse? You mentioned his age, did it give any other information apart from his name and age? How old was this William Staniforth in 1881?

From what I can see, it looks as though it was probably just referred to as St.Luke Workhouse, Chelsea. If you search the London Generations database at http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/londonGenerations/ it seems as though admission and discharge records do still exist (some others were fire damaged during the war IIRC). I've contacted the London Generations web team before now and had a really helpful response, so they might be worth speaking to for further guidance.

There's a census transcript at http://www.workhouses.org.uk/index.html?Chelsea/Chelsea1881.shtml. The only information is age, occupation (plasterer) and place of birth, Lancashire.

I have just had a look and it's very interesting. As I said Staniforths seemed to originate from Lancashire/Yorkshire and Derbyshire, not many in London. So this William Staniforth in Chelsea workhouse looks very likely to be part of the family. He is 75 on the workhouse record in 1881 so that makes his birth around 1806 - about 29 when my William Staniforth was born. He could be John's brother unless it was one of these cases where he was actually William John Staniforth and everyone called him John? That does happen I suppose but it's more likely a relative of John's. If it is brother that would tell me that John Staniforth (William's father) probably hailed from Lancashire.

Thanks for your help.
dinks

where william was lodging in 1841 have you check the head and his wife marriage out as they might be uncle or aunt this as been know before to put lodge

Actually I haven't. It had crossed my mind that Margaret Down the wife may have originally been a Staniforth before marriage to Richard Down but she states she was originally born in Wales and I think the Staniforths came from up north.

It is certainly an avenue worth a look. I may need to buy come credits to get back on the census records. My little girl has chickenpox at the moment so it may have to wait until she is back at school next week and I have some time to myself!

dinks

william mother might be a downs if you got no record of her?

Oh of course, I hadn't thought that Margaret Down could be his mother's sister. Having no idea who his mother is it's hard to tell!