Genealogy Forum UK

I have only just started my Grandmother's line and am finding it more than confusing.

Grandma was Mary Ann Murphy born to a John Patrick Murphy and Charolotte Waterhouse in Oldbury in 1892.

Although I have a list of her siblings I have no idea of their marriages and children.

John Patrick Murphy's father was Patrick Murphy and his mother was Catherine, bot from Dublin apparently. I have yet to see a tree that gives a clue to Catherine's maiden name.

The family was supposed to have arrived in Oldbury in the mid 1860's yet the only 1871 census that remotely looks like them had birth dates way off for both parents and children.

Not just a year or two but a decade or more.

Not a single tree I have seen agrees with another.

Hoping to find somebody who has relatives along this family line.

I take it that this is the marriage.

West Midlands Marriage 1892.
WATERHOUSE Charlotte, MURPHY John, West Bromwich Register Office, Sandwell Register Office WBRO/22/137.

1881.
Patrick MURPHY. Head M Male 42 Ireland Labourer.
Catherine MURPHY. Wife M Female 40 Ireland
Patrick MURPHY. Son U Male 18 Ireland Boat Builder.
Mary MURPHY. Daur Female 14 Oldbury, Worcester, Domestic Servant.
Kate MURPHY. Daur Female 15 Oldbury, Worcester,
John MURPHY. Son Male 9 Oldbury, Worcester,
Annie MURPHY. Daur Female 12 Oldbury, Worcester,

5 Rounds Ford.
Oldbury, Worcester.

Jimmy wrote:1881.
Patrick MURPHY. Head M Male 42 Ireland Labourer.
Catherine MURPHY. Wife M Female 40 Ireland
Patrick MURPHY. Son U Male 18 Ireland Boat Builder.
Mary MURPHY. Daur Female 14 Oldbury, Worcester, Domestic Servant.
Kate MURPHY. Daur Female 15 Oldbury, Worcester,
John MURPHY. Son Male 9 Oldbury, Worcester,
Annie MURPHY. Daur Female 12 Oldbury, Worcester,

5 Rounds Ford.
Oldbury, Worcester.

Strange! all the ages on this family only, on the 1881, have been heavily written by the enumerator

1871.
Patrick Murphy. abt 1821. Ireland.
Catharine Murphy. abt 1827. Ireland.
Elizabeth Murphy. abt 1850. Ireland.
Patrick Murphy. abt 1852. Ireland.
Michael Murphy. abt 1854. Ireland.
Thomas Murphy. abt 1857. Ireland.
Mary Murphy. abt 1860. Ireland.
Catharine Murphy. abt 1863. Oldbury.
John Murphy. abt 1866. Oldbury.
Annie Murphy. abt 1868. Oldbury.

A Possible marriage,

Extracted.

PATRICK MURPHY.
CATHERINE MOYNAHAN.
Marriage, 30 APR 1843, Rathmore With Nohaval And Kilcummin, Kerry, Ireland.

It looks like they came from Ireland after 1857 and before 1860.

Births Sep 1860.
MURPHY Mary, W Bromwich. 6B. 586.

West Midlands Birth 1860.
MURPHY Mary, Oldbury. Sandwell Register Office. OLD/28/155.

This is the same family as 1871 and 1881.

1861.
Patrick Murphy. abt 1821. Ireland.
Catharine Murphy. abt 1828. Ireland.
Betsey Murphy. abt 1849. Ireland.
Pat Murphy. abt 1852. Ireland.
Michael Murphy. abt 1854. Ireland.
Thomas Murphy. abt 1857. Ireland.
Mary Murphy. abt 1860. Oldbury.

Would it say on Mary's birth cert the mothers maiden name.

A possible.

PATRICK MURPHY.
Christening, 04 JAN 1855, Rathmore With Nohaval And Kilcummin, Kerry, Ireland.
Parents:
PATRICK MURPHY.
CATHERINE MOYNHAN.

That looks good Jimmy
I've deleted the ones i found cos didn't look right

There were Murphy's in Oldbury when i was a kid in the 50's.They went to the St Francis and St Chads (Birmingham) schools.
There was a family living on the Pencricket Estate.
I found 1891
Crowther square,Albert Street,Oldbury
John Murphy head 22 Fishmonger born Oldbury
Mary A Murphy wife 21 born Oldbury
Elizabeth Murphy daug 7 months born Oldbury

Then in 1901 just up the road from Albert Street
25 Halesowen Street -Rollers Arms Inn
John Murphy head 32 Fishmonger - Publican born Oldbury
Mary A Murphy wife 32 born Oldbury
Elizabeth Murphy daug 10 born Oldbury
Lilly R Murphy daug 8 born Oldbury
Maggie Murphy daug 4 born Oldbury
Louisa West domestic servant 14 born Oldbury

Nice one you lot



there you go Mark our Robbie is from the Oldbury area and quite elderly so will know
a few folk
he remembers wearing winkle pickers
now he is just wrinkly and pickey
Joking Rob!



There are some great books on West Brom with some marvellous photos and of Oldbury too on sale
The archives at Smethwick have a huge amount of resources and a few of us know the area and have resources too!
I know you want the flesh on the bones and an idea of how they lived we will try and help you as much as we can

You're treading on thin ice our Janet!!
But Mark you're in good hands on here!!

I've never heard of the "Rollers Arms Inn" in Halesowen Street.
My dad worked at Barlows Rolling Mills and my granddad Beard worked at Ratcliffes.Ofcourse we're talking about the 20's 30's and 40's and 50's.
Both were on Halesowen Street and both were rolling mills.I'm wondering where the pub was.

I think I have this sorted out, but some mysteries remain....

I will ignore the ages given in the 1881 census. If you look at it you will see the original ages have been overwritten by somebody other than the

original enumerator. The writing, and ink, is completetly different than anything else on the page or, as far as I can see, the whole book. This may

have been done for "Poor Law" reasons but that is just specualtion.

If you take the 1861, 1871 and 1881 Census then you end up with the following family.

Patrick Murphy abt 1821 Ireland
Catharine Murphy abt 1827 Ireland
Betsey Murphy abt 1849 Ireland
Elizabeth Murphy abt 1850 Ireland
Pat Murphy abt 1852 Ireland
Michael Murphy abt 1854 Ireland
Thomas Murphy abt 1857 Ireland
Mary Murphy abt 1860 Oldbury (on the 1971 census it is listed as Ireland)
Catharine Murphy abt 1863 Oldbury
Patrick Murphy abt 1863 Oldbury
John Murphy abt 1866 Oldbury
Kate Murphy abt 1866 Oldbury
Mary Murphy abt 1867 Oldbury
Annie Murphy and 1868 Oldbury
John Murphy abt 1872 Oldbury

We can easily eliminate some of these as being doubles with the confusion of the 1881 census and "nicknames" confusing the situation.

Betsey and Elizabeth are the same person. Elizabeth get married three times and lived in the USa for a while....

The two Mary Murphy are the same with the 1881 census entry being "fiddled with" to make her younger.

Same with the two Patrick Murphy.

Same wih the two John Murphy.

Catherine and Kate Murphy are the same person with the 1881 census and nicknames being taken into consideration. There has never been a Kate Murphy born

in Worcestershire.

Annie Murphy is actually registered as Hannah Murphy but called Annie by her family. Her Marriage is under the name Hannah and all further Census

entries after 1881 are Hannah.

So the following is the final family as I see it.

Patrick Murphy born abt 1821 in Ireland.

Catherine Unknown born abt 1827 in Ireland.

They would have married about 1848 in Ireland.

Elizabeth Murphy born abt 1850 in Ireland.

Patrick Murphy born abt 1852 in Ireland.

Michael Murphy born about 1854 in Ireland.

Thomas Murphy born about 1857 in Ireland.

Mary Murphy born the 3rd Quarter 1860 in Oldbury.

Catharine Murphy born the 2nd Quarter 1862 in Oldbury.

John Murphy born abt 1867 in Oldbury. There are two potential matches in 1st Quarter 1866 and 1st quarter 1868.

Hannah Murphy born 1st Quarter 1860 in Oldbury.


This is the only thing that makes sense if you accept it is the same family in all three Census.

I will do some more investigations based on these assumptions and see if they are correct...

Any guesses on the editing of the 1881 census?

I think the dead giveaway is the younger Patricks entry that lists him as 18. I think you can clearly see parts of the peculiar 7 that the enumerator

used and that it was originally written as 27.

MarkCDodd wrote: Mary Murphy born the 3rd Quarter 1860 in Oldbury.

Catharine Murphy born the 2nd Quarter 1862 in Oldbury.

John Murphy born abt 1867 in Oldbury. There are two potential matches in 1st Quarter 1866 and 1st quarter 1868.

Hannah Murphy born 1st Quarter 1860 in Oldbury.

Do you mean to have Mary and Hannah born in the same year or is that a mistype?

January/February birth and a November/December birth would still allow full term babies.