Street location

[Frodo]

I am doing research on the Manger side of my family and being confused by the name being given to the street they lived in. They lived on Larance Lane. On the censuses/for David Manger it appears as being in Rowley Regis but on Martha's birth information on some Ancestry trees Larance Lane is in Old Hill. I' I do not know Birmingham so can someone please tell me whether Old Hill would have been part of Rowley in 1864 or whether this is just someone's mistake.

[Jimmy]

Old Hill is Rowley Regis area, Rowley Regis is in the Black country, nothing to do with Birmingham.

[rockyfowler]

Birmingham tried to steal parts of the blackcountry such as Blackheath (for its nearness to Quinton) but they soon went back to original other names in Blackcountry think it was in early 1900`s Lawrence Lane was in Old Hill the main areas around were classed as Rowley Regis in 1864 at that time Regards RF

[Frodo]

Does that mean I should say my family is from the Black Country not Birmingham. My grandmother was brought up on Terrace Street then Ross, my grandfather Malt Mill Lane then Beaumont Road and my father lived Beaumont Road for the first six years of his life.

Perhaps I should edit my Ancestry Larance Road to read Old Hill, Rowley Regis?

[Rob]

Blackheath and Old Hill have never been part of Birmingham. They are now part of the present day Rowley Regis Borough. You could even call yourself a "Yam Yam". A deragotory term invented by Brummies about Black Country people. Although many Black Country people these days seem to delight in calling themselves Yam Yams i find it offensive.

[Frodo]

I have not heard of Yam Yam before but having looked it up it makes sense. Apart from when Nathan Taylor was living in Stoke Prior Rowley Regis appears on nearly all the records I have found for both sides of the family as they all lived on or close to Malt Mill Lane
but my father/grandparents talked about Birmingham and the Black Country - perhaps it was just easier to say you came from Birmingham. The majority of my ancestors were miners,nailers or chainmakers so I guess being from the Black Country sounds appropriate.

[gardener]

I am doing research on the Manger side of my family and being confused by the name being given to the street they lived in. They lived on Larance Lane. On the censuses/for David Manger it appears as being in Rowley Regis but on Martha's birth information on some Ancestry trees Larance Lane is in Old Hill. I' I do not know Birmingham so can someone please tell me whether Old Hill would have been part of Rowley in 1864 or whether this is just someone's mistake.

Hi

Here is a useful map http://www.archiuk.com/cgi-bin/build_nl ... =-2.045602
If you zoom in on Old Hill and then follow the mineral railway to the left, it cuts across Lawrence Lane (note the correct spelling).

The 1851/61/71 census have David Manger at Lawrence Lane, Parish of Rowley Regis, Ecclesiastical district of Redal Hill.


Lawrence Lane would count as Old Hill, but according to here https://forebears.io/england/staffordsh ... is/oldhill Old Hill became an ecclesiastical parish after 1876. and now I think it is part of Cradley Heath rather than Rowley Regis. Industrial places grew very rapidly in the 19th century and were split into smaller civil/church units, to make administration easier. Then populations fell and administrative units got bigger again. Bit confusing! But the answer is that both Old Hill and Rowley Regis are correct I think....

[Frodo]

Thanks for that - I will take a closer look at the maps/information when I have chance. Martha moved to somewhere called either Hill or The Hill according to the censuses - I can see Hill on the map - does that mean these addresses are areas rather than streets?

[gardener]

Hi.Yes, The Town was an area. It was actually an old township, and you can see it here https://www.dudley.gov.uk/media/6290/hill.pdf
There are more of these old townships areas here https://www.dudley.gov.uk/residents/pla ... of-dudley/ (down towards the bottom)

Looking at The Hill .pdf, you can see Olive Hill Farm marked just above the middle of the map. Olive Hill Farm is just above HILL on the map I linked in the post above, and Maltmill Lane where Martha lived is just above that. According to the Dudley site, the townships existed until about 1750, but obviously their names live on

[Frodo]

Thanks. The maps are very interesting. I obviously need to be looking at more than one council/area when I'm doing my research. Dudley and Stourbridge do appear on some documents. It's a shame no Mill appears in the area of Malt Mill Lane - I had always presumed there had been one and it had given the road it's name. Perhaps it will make more sense if I ever manage to visit the area - I know most of the streets my family we're on still exist even if the houses don't.

[gardener]

You could be right, but you would have to look further back probably.

I found these bits of info:

"In 1672 there were besides those mills belonging to the lord, three mills belonging to Henry Haden, who had inherited two from his father. It seems to have been the duty of the Lyttelton’s to repair the bridges at Malt Mill and Cornbow. In 1668 the bridges were in such bad repair that the constable prosecuted Sir Henry Littleton for refusing to store them."

"The abbot had the town of Hales created into a borough in 1270. The first dated evidence of such is in 1277. The abbot also had two mills worth 20s a year in 1291 and the new mill of Hales is mentioned in 1293. This may have been the Cornbow Mill. The Grange, to the south of the town, was probably the Great Grange recorded in the Manor Court Rolls in the 1270’s. These were collection points for agricultural products. A grant in 1344 to the abbot and convent of a weekly market on Mondays and a fair for four days at the Feast of St. Barnabas (11 June) may have superseded the previous market day and fair. But the Black Death arrived in 1348 and the town was decimated over 40% of the population succumbed to the disease."

"The site of the Cornbow Mill [HBSMR 4632] identified as a malthouse on the Plan of Halesowen of 1845 and as The Institute on the Ordnance Survey map produced in the 1880s. The malthouse, which was probably converted from the mill, was recorded in 1778 following the death of its owner William Powell. The site retains two sluices and three bricked up arches in addition to sandstone block and cobbled surfaces "

So, the Cornbow Mill may have been 13th century but the name still in use today.

Have fun looking into it, and good luck sorting out where everywhere was. Don't forget that Halesowen was in Shropshire until 1844

[Frodo]

Thanks for the information - it does sound quite plausible - something to add to my growing list of queries. I did not know about the Shropshire connection, I've mainly come across Worcestershire and Staffordshire when I have been searching. I have an old map but probably need more detailed history - it would be be interesting to see what existed on and around Malt Mill Lane and Larance Lane before my great grandfather built the houses on Malt Mill Lane and elsewhere.