Genealogy Forum UK

I have a Samuel Birch collier/coal miner, (father of Thomas as shown on BCC married to Louisa Downing)
The following may, or may not, appertain to him:
Baptism: 15 Sep 1816, All Saints Sedgely, parents Thomas & Letticia (FreeREG)

Marriage: 23 May 1836 to Phebe Bowater, St Thomas, Dudley, Worcestershire no parental info.(FreeREG)

But I can't pin Ph(o)ebe's birth down, there are GRO records:
Name: BIRCH, MARY ANN
Mother's maiden name: BOWETER
GRO Reference: 1839 M Quarter in DUDLEY UNION Volume 18 Page 299
Name: BIRCH, JOHN WALTER
Mother's Maiden Surname: BOWATER
GRO Reference: 1858 D Quarter in DUDLEY Volume 06C Page 137
which support the marriage record.

Census 1851
Samuel Birch Head Mar 35 Coal miner Sedgley Stafford
Phebe Birch Wife Mar 36 Sedgley Stafford
Thomas Birch Son 14 Coal miner Sedgley Stafford
Mary Ann Birch Daur 12 Sedgley Stafford
Samuel Birch Son 9 Scholar Dudley Worcester
Elizabeth Birch Daur 8 Scholar Dudley Worcester
Emila Birch Daur 6 Scholar Dudley Worcester
Joseph Birch Son 1 month Dudley Worcester
Queens Cross, Dudley, Worcestershire

Census 1861
Samuel Birch Head Mar 44 Coal miner Staffordshire Sedgley
Phebe Birch Wife Mar 45 Staffordshire Sedgley
Mary A Birch Dau Un 22 Laundress Staffordshire Sedgley
Samuel Birch Son Un 19 Coal miner Worcestershire Dudley
Elizabeth Birch Dau Un 17 Laundress Worcestershire Dudley
Pamela Birch Dau 15 Gen Serv Worcestershire Dudley
Joseph Birch Son 10 Scholar Worcestershire Dudley
Louisa Birch Dau 7 Scholar Worcestershire Dudley
Alfred Birch Son 5 Scholar Worcestershire Dudley
John W Birch Son 2 Scholar Worcestershire Dudley

Burial: Phoebe Birch, Age 50, 6 Mar 1866, St James, Dudley. (FreeREG)

Census 1871
Samuel Pitt Head Mar 28 Painter (Employing 2 men) Worcestershire Dudley
Pamela Pitt Wife Mar 25 Worcestershire Dudley
Samuel Birch Boarder Widr 52 Mining Bailiff Staffordshire Sedgley
Joseph Birch Boarder Unm 20 Boiler maker Worcestershire Dudley
Louisa Birch Boarder Unm 17 Worcestershire Dudley
John Birch Boarder 11 Scholar Worcestershire Dudley
123 Queens Cross, Dudley

Burial: Samuel Birch, Age 64, 16 Apr 1882, St James Dudley (FreeREG)

Assuming these are one and the same, I can't find the 1841 Census, and the age at burial suggests the baptism might not be him.

On FreeREG there are baptisms of some of their children:
Thomas, 6 Nov 1836 All Saints, Sedgely
Pamela, 1 Mar 1846, St Thomas, Dudley
Louisa, 22 Jan 1854, St Thomas, Dudley
Alfred, 24 Aug 1856, St Thomas, Dudley
John Walter, 30 Jan 1859, St Thomas, Dudley

But I can't find the rest of them and I haven't trawled the GRO records yet.

Unfortunately there is also a Samuel Birch carpenter who married a Ph(o)ebe and had several children of the same or similar names and ages who had their children baptised mainly at West Bromwich.

Can anyone find an alternative to Samuel's 1816 baptism, the 1841 census record and Ph(o)ebe Bowe(a)ter's birth/baptism and hence her parents.

If you can this lot can be added to BCC if anyone fancies it.

Thanks.

1841. Dudley.
Saml Brich 20. Miner. n.b.i.c.
Pheobe Brich 20. n.b.i.c.
Thos Brich 4.
M A Brich 2.
Abraham Brich 15.
Saml Brich 1 Mo.

BIRCH, SAMUEL     BOATER.
GRO Reference: 1841  J Quarter in DUDLEY UNION  Volume 18  Page 274.

There is this one,

Family search.

Phebe Bowetter.
Birth date 08 Dec 1818.
Christening Date 31 Dec 1820.
Christening Place PROVIDENCE BAPTIST,COSELEY,STAFFORD

Father's Name Aaron Bowetter.
Mother's Name Sarah.

England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975.
Indexing Project (Batch) Number C09270-1.
System Origin England-ODM.
GS Film number 825392.

FreeReg,

Dudley St Thomas.
Register entry number 533.
Marriage date 8 Jul 1811.
Aaron BOWATER. Bachelor.
Sarah WEBB. Spinster.
Witness
Jos. BAKER.
Witness
Mark BOND.
Register note By Banns - Bride And Groom Sign X.

That Coseley one don't fit with age at death.

FreeReg,

Dudley St James.
Register entry number 2419.
Burial date 06 Mar 1866.
Person age 50.
Phoebe BIRCH. Dudley

Thanks for that 1841, I haven't got that far yet but I suspect that Abraham is Samuel's brother.

I think that Coseley one might be the one who had her children baptised at West Bromwich so she'll keep for another day but I'll see if I can track her through the census just in case. I have a vague recollection of seeing a Phebe from Coseley in the search results.

If the birth year is anything to go by, it looks like the 'other' Phebe, the one married to Samuel the carpenter who had their kids baptised at West Bromwich, is the one baptised at Coseley and not the one that's the subject of this topic.

Jimmy wrote:There is this one,

Family search.

Phebe Bowetter.
Birth date 08 Dec 1818.
Christening Date 31 Dec 1820.
Christening Place PROVIDENCE BAPTIST,COSELEY,STAFFORD

Father's Name Aaron Bowetter.
Mother's Name Sarah.

England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975.
Indexing Project (Batch) Number C09270-1.
System Origin England-ODM.
GS Film number 825392.

FreeReg,

Dudley St Thomas.
Register entry number 533.
Marriage date 8 Jul 1811.
Aaron BOWATER. Bachelor.
Sarah WEBB. Spinster.
Witness
Jos. BAKER.
Witness
Mark BOND.
Register note By Banns - Bride And Groom Sign X.

added to BCC - https://www.tribalpages.com/tribe/brows ... =307018875

mallosa wrote:

Jimmy wrote:There is this one,

Family search.

Phebe Bowetter.
Birth date 08 Dec 1818.
Christening Date 31 Dec 1820.
Christening Place PROVIDENCE BAPTIST,COSELEY,STAFFORD

Father's Name Aaron Bowetter.
Mother's Name Sarah.

England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975.
Indexing Project (Batch) Number C09270-1.
System Origin England-ODM.
GS Film number 825392.

FreeReg,

Dudley St Thomas.
Register entry number 533.
Marriage date 8 Jul 1811.
Aaron BOWATER. Bachelor.
Sarah WEBB. Spinster.
Witness
Jos. BAKER.
Witness
Mark BOND.
Register note By Banns - Bride And Groom Sign X.

added to BCC - https://www.tribalpages.com/tribe/brows ... =307018875

Although referring to a different subject to my original one I've got some more on this family:
Census 1841
Isaac Boweter 25 1816 Male Staffordshire England
Phoebe Boweter 25 1816 Female Staffordshire England
Mary Boweter 2 1839 Female Staffordshire England
Thumpers Lane, Sedgeley, Staffordshire

Census 1851
155 Victoria Place, West Bromwich
Samuel Birch Head Mar 36 Journeyman Carpenter Shropshire Grindle
Phoebe Birch Wife Mar 32 Lady's stay maker Staffordshire West Bromwich
Samuel Birch Son 9 Scholar Staffordshire West Bromwich
Mary A Birch Daur 5 Staffordshire West Bromwich
Eliza Birch Daur 3 Staffordshire West Bromwich
Hannah Birch Daur 2 Staffordshire West Bromwich
Phoebe Birch 10 Mo Staffordshire West Bromwich

FreeREG
Type: Baptism
County: Staffordshire
Place: West Bromwich
Church name: All Saints
Register type: Parish Register
Register entry number: 890
Baptism date: 18 Apr 1841
Birth date:
Person forename: Ann Elizabeth Bedworth
Person sex: F
Person abode: Lying
Father forename: Samuel
Father surname: BIRCH
Father occupation: Carpenter
Mother forename: Phebe

---------
FreeREG
Type: Baptism
County: Staffordshire
Place: West Bromwich
Church name: Christ Church
Register type: Unspecified
Register entry number: 890
Baptism date: 10 Apr 1842
Birth date: 02 Feb 1842
Person forename: Samuel
Person sex: M
Person abode: Lyng Lane
Father forename: Samuel
Father surname: BIRCH
Father occupation: Carpenter
Mother forename: Phebe

---------
FreeREG
Type: Baptism
County: Staffordshire
Place: West Bromwich
Church name: Christ Church
Register type: Unspecified
Register entry number: 890
Baptism date: 15 Jun 1845
Birth date: 09 May 1845
Person forename: Mary Ann
Person sex: F
Person abode: Hateley Heath
Father forename: Samuel
Father surname: BIRCH
Father occupation: Joiner
Mother forename: Phoebe

---------
FreeREG
Type: Baptism
County: Staffordshire
Place: West Bromwich
Church name: Christ Church
Register type: Unspecified
Baptism date: 27 Jun 1847
Birth date: 29 Apr 1847
Person forename: Eliza Jane
Person sex: F
Person abode: Victoria Place
Father forename: Samuel
Father surname: BIRCH
Father occupation: Carpenter
Mother forename: Phoebe

---------
FreeREG
Type: Baptism
County: Staffordshire
Place: West Bromwich
Church name: Christ Church
Register type: Unspecified
Baptism date: 17 Jun 1849
Birth date: 27 Mar 1849
Person forename: Anna Maria
Person sex: F
Person abode: Victoria Place
Father forename: Samuel
Father surname: BIRCH
Father occupation: Joiner
Mother forename: Phoebe

---------
FreeREG
Type: Baptism
County: Staffordshire
Place: West Bromwich
Church name: Christ Church
Register type: Unspecified
Baptism date: 08 Dec 1850
Birth date: 03 Oct 1850
Person forename: Phebe Emma
Person sex: F
Person abode: Victoria Place
Father forename: Samuel
Father surname: BIRCH
Father occupation: Carpenter
Mother forename: Phebe

---------
FreeREG
Type: Baptism
County: Staffordshire
Place: West Bromwich
Church name: Christ Church
Register type: Unspecified
Baptism date: 18 Jun 1854
Person forename: Esther
Person sex: F
Person abode: Victoria St.
Father forename: Samuel
Father surname: BIRCH
Father occupation: Carpenter
Mother forename: Phoebe

---------
FreeREG
Type: Baptism
County: Staffordshire
Place: West Bromwich
Church name: Christ Church
Register type: Unspecified
Baptism date: 27 Jan 1856
Person forename: Elizabeth
Person sex: F
Person abode: Victoria Place
Father forename: Samuel
Father surname: BIRCH
Father occupation: Carpenter
Mother forename: Phebe

---------
FreeREG
Type: Baptism
County: Staffordshire
Place: West Bromwich
Church name: Christ Church
Register type: Unspecified
Baptism date: 28 Aug 1859
Person forename: Henry
Person sex: M
Person abode: Victoria St.
Father forename: Samuel
Father surname: BIRCH
Father occupation: Carpenter
Mother forename: Phebe

---------
FreeREG
Type: Baptism
County: Staffordshire
Place: West Bromwich
Church name: Christ Church
Register type: Unspecified
Baptism date: 21 Oct 1860
Person forename: Lucy
Person sex: F
Person abode: Victoria Place
Father forename: Samuel
Father surname: BIRCH
Father occupation: Carpenter
Mother forename: Phoebe

But they'll want checking as I haven't cross referenced them with any other records.

SRD wrote:I have a Samuel Birch collier/coal miner, (father of Thomas as shown on BCC married to Louisa Downing)
The following may, or may not, appertain to him:
Baptism: 15 Sep 1816, All Saints Sedgely, parents Thomas & Letticia (FreeREG)

Marriage: 23 May 1836 to Phebe Bowater, St Thomas, Dudley, Worcestershire no parental info.(FreeREG)

But I can't pin Ph(o)ebe's birth down, there are GRO records:
Name: BIRCH, MARY ANN
Mother's maiden name: BOWETER
GRO Reference: 1839 M Quarter in DUDLEY UNION Volume 18 Page 299
Name: BIRCH, JOHN WALTER
Mother's Maiden Surname: BOWATER
GRO Reference: 1858 D Quarter in DUDLEY Volume 06C Page 137
which support the marriage record.

Census 1851
Samuel Birch Head Mar 35 Coal miner Sedgley Stafford
Phebe Birch Wife Mar 36 Sedgley Stafford
Thomas Birch Son 14 Coal miner Sedgley Stafford
Mary Ann Birch Daur 12 Sedgley Stafford
Samuel Birch Son 9 Scholar Dudley Worcester
Elizabeth Birch Daur 8 Scholar Dudley Worcester
Emila Birch Daur 6 Scholar Dudley Worcester
Joseph Birch Son 1 month Dudley Worcester
Queens Cross, Dudley, Worcestershire

Census 1861
Samuel Birch Head Mar 44 Coal miner Staffordshire Sedgley
Phebe Birch Wife Mar 45 Staffordshire Sedgley
Mary A Birch Dau Un 22 Laundress Staffordshire Sedgley
Samuel Birch Son Un 19 Coal miner Worcestershire Dudley
Elizabeth Birch Dau Un 17 Laundress Worcestershire Dudley
Pamela Birch Dau 15 Gen Serv Worcestershire Dudley
Joseph Birch Son 10 Scholar Worcestershire Dudley
Louisa Birch Dau 7 Scholar Worcestershire Dudley
Alfred Birch Son 5 Scholar Worcestershire Dudley
John W Birch Son 2 Scholar Worcestershire Dudley

Burial: Phoebe Birch, Age 50, 6 Mar 1866, St James, Dudley. (FreeREG)

Census 1871
Samuel Pitt Head Mar 28 Painter (Employing 2 men) Worcestershire Dudley
Pamela Pitt Wife Mar 25 Worcestershire Dudley
Samuel Birch Boarder Widr 52 Mining Bailiff Staffordshire Sedgley
Joseph Birch Boarder Unm 20 Boiler maker Worcestershire Dudley
Louisa Birch Boarder Unm 17 Worcestershire Dudley
John Birch Boarder 11 Scholar Worcestershire Dudley
123 Queens Cross, Dudley

Burial: Samuel Birch, Age 64, 16 Apr 1882, St James Dudley (FreeREG)

Assuming these are one and the same, I can't find the 1841 Census, and the age at burial suggests the baptism might not be him.

On FreeREG there are baptisms of some of their children:
Thomas, 6 Nov 1836 All Saints, Sedgely
Pamela, 1 Mar 1846, St Thomas, Dudley
Louisa, 22 Jan 1854, St Thomas, Dudley
Alfred, 24 Aug 1856, St Thomas, Dudley
John Walter, 30 Jan 1859, St Thomas, Dudley

But I can't find the rest of them and I haven't trawled the GRO records yet.

Unfortunately there is also a Samuel Birch carpenter who married a Ph(o)ebe and had several children of the same or similar names and ages who had their children baptised mainly at West Bromwich.

Can anyone find an alternative to Samuel's 1816 baptism, the 1841 census record and Ph(o)ebe Bowe(a)ter's birth/baptism and hence her parents.

If you can this lot can be added to BCC if anyone fancies it.

Thanks.

I'm in the process of adding these, will add more tomorrow

https://www.tribalpages.com/tribe/brows ... =262852311

https://www.tribalpages.com/tribe/brows ... =855576350

are you finished on this mally?

if so can you let me know and we can archive I will sticky for mo and thanks

Don't worry Jan, I'll let you know

SRD this is what we have, will you let me know if ok so far?

https://www.tribalpages.com/tribe/brows ... =213477143

https://www.tribalpages.com/tribe/brows ... =806098222

SRD wrote:

mallosa wrote:

Jimmy wrote:There is this one,

Family search.

Phebe Bowetter.
Birth date 08 Dec 1818.
Christening Date 31 Dec 1820.
Christening Place PROVIDENCE BAPTIST,COSELEY,STAFFORD

Father's Name Aaron Bowetter.
Mother's Name Sarah.

England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975.
Indexing Project (Batch) Number C09270-1.
System Origin England-ODM.
GS Film number 825392.

FreeReg,

Dudley St Thomas.
Register entry number 533.
Marriage date 8 Jul 1811.
Aaron BOWATER. Bachelor.
Sarah WEBB. Spinster.
Witness
Jos. BAKER.
Witness
Mark BOND.
Register note By Banns - Bride And Groom Sign X.

added to BCC - https://www.tribalpages.com/tribe/brows ... =307018875

Although referring to a different subject to my original one I've got some more on this family:
Census 1841
Isaac Boweter 25 1816 Male Staffordshire England
Phoebe Boweter 25 1816 Female Staffordshire England
Mary Boweter 2 1839 Female Staffordshire England
Thumpers Lane, Sedgeley, Staffordshire

Census 1851
155 Victoria Place, West Bromwich
Samuel Birch Head Mar 36 Journeyman Carpenter Shropshire Grindle
Phoebe Birch Wife Mar 32 Lady's stay maker Staffordshire West Bromwich
Samuel Birch Son 9 Scholar Staffordshire West Bromwich
Mary A Birch Daur 5 Staffordshire West Bromwich
Eliza Birch Daur 3 Staffordshire West Bromwich
Hannah Birch Daur 2 Staffordshire West Bromwich
Phoebe Birch 10 Mo Staffordshire West Bromwich

FreeREG
Type: Baptism
County: Staffordshire
Place: West Bromwich
Church name: All Saints
Register type: Parish Register
Register entry number: 890
Baptism date: 18 Apr 1841
Birth date:
Person forename: Ann Elizabeth Bedworth
Person sex: F
Person abode: Lying
Father forename: Samuel
Father surname: BIRCH
Father occupation: Carpenter
Mother forename: Phebe

---------
FreeREG
Type: Baptism
County: Staffordshire
Place: West Bromwich
Church name: Christ Church
Register type: Unspecified
Register entry number: 890
Baptism date: 10 Apr 1842
Birth date: 02 Feb 1842
Person forename: Samuel
Person sex: M
Person abode: Lyng Lane
Father forename: Samuel
Father surname: BIRCH
Father occupation: Carpenter
Mother forename: Phebe

---------
FreeREG
Type: Baptism
County: Staffordshire
Place: West Bromwich
Church name: Christ Church
Register type: Unspecified
Register entry number: 890
Baptism date: 15 Jun 1845
Birth date: 09 May 1845
Person forename: Mary Ann
Person sex: F
Person abode: Hateley Heath
Father forename: Samuel
Father surname: BIRCH
Father occupation: Joiner
Mother forename: Phoebe

---------
FreeREG
Type: Baptism
County: Staffordshire
Place: West Bromwich
Church name: Christ Church
Register type: Unspecified
Baptism date: 27 Jun 1847
Birth date: 29 Apr 1847
Person forename: Eliza Jane
Person sex: F
Person abode: Victoria Place
Father forename: Samuel
Father surname: BIRCH
Father occupation: Carpenter
Mother forename: Phoebe

---------
FreeREG
Type: Baptism
County: Staffordshire
Place: West Bromwich
Church name: Christ Church
Register type: Unspecified
Baptism date: 17 Jun 1849
Birth date: 27 Mar 1849
Person forename: Anna Maria
Person sex: F
Person abode: Victoria Place
Father forename: Samuel
Father surname: BIRCH
Father occupation: Joiner
Mother forename: Phoebe

---------
FreeREG
Type: Baptism
County: Staffordshire
Place: West Bromwich
Church name: Christ Church
Register type: Unspecified
Baptism date: 08 Dec 1850
Birth date: 03 Oct 1850
Person forename: Phebe Emma
Person sex: F
Person abode: Victoria Place
Father forename: Samuel
Father surname: BIRCH
Father occupation: Carpenter
Mother forename: Phebe

---------
FreeREG
Type: Baptism
County: Staffordshire
Place: West Bromwich
Church name: Christ Church
Register type: Unspecified
Baptism date: 18 Jun 1854
Person forename: Esther
Person sex: F
Person abode: Victoria St.
Father forename: Samuel
Father surname: BIRCH
Father occupation: Carpenter
Mother forename: Phoebe

---------
FreeREG
Type: Baptism
County: Staffordshire
Place: West Bromwich
Church name: Christ Church
Register type: Unspecified
Baptism date: 27 Jan 1856
Person forename: Elizabeth
Person sex: F
Person abode: Victoria Place
Father forename: Samuel
Father surname: BIRCH
Father occupation: Carpenter
Mother forename: Phebe

---------
FreeREG
Type: Baptism
County: Staffordshire
Place: West Bromwich
Church name: Christ Church
Register type: Unspecified
Baptism date: 28 Aug 1859
Person forename: Henry
Person sex: M
Person abode: Victoria St.
Father forename: Samuel
Father surname: BIRCH
Father occupation: Carpenter
Mother forename: Phebe

---------
FreeREG
Type: Baptism
County: Staffordshire
Place: West Bromwich
Church name: Christ Church
Register type: Unspecified
Baptism date: 21 Oct 1860
Person forename: Lucy
Person sex: F
Person abode: Victoria Place
Father forename: Samuel
Father surname: BIRCH
Father occupation: Carpenter
Mother forename: Phoebe

But they'll want checking as I haven't cross referenced them with any other records.

It's really confusing SRD so I've started a new post - Samuel Birch (carpenter)

This can be archived now

Brought back as SRD requested ref he had more to add.