Genealogy Forum UK

Can you help me to find a marriage for James Bailey, baptised 4th April 1842, parents John & Fanny , in Studley, Warks, to Ellen Amelia Wright, born about 1837 in The Pershore area, Worcs? They lived most of their lives in Great Alne, Warks , and had at least five children, Jane, Harriet, Emily, James and Henry. The eldest, Jane is shown on census as being from Pershore, the remainder from Great Alne, and there is quite a gap between her and her siblings. Many thanks.

It is a big gap, isn't it?

1881
James Bailey 40
Amelia Bailey 44
Harriet Bailey 12
Emily Bailey 11
James Bailey 9
Henry Bailey 3

1871
James Bailey 29
Ellen Bailey 34
Jane Bailey 11
Harriet Bailey 2
Emily Bailey 1


READ, JANE -
GRO Reference: 1860 M Quarter in PERSHORE Volume 06C Page 403

BAILEY, HARRIET WRIGHT
GRO Reference: 1868 S Quarter in OF ALCESTER IN THE COUNTIES OF WARWICK AND WORCEST Volume 06D Page 541


BAILEY, EMILY READ
GRO Reference: 1869 D Quarter in OF ALCESTER IN THE COUNTIES OF WARWICK AND WORCEST Volume 06D Page 531

BAILEY, JAMES READ
GRO Reference: 1872 M Quarter in OF ALCESTER IN THE COUNTIES OF WARWICK AND WORCEST Volume 06D Page 611

BAILEY, HENRY READ Order
GRO Reference: 1877 D Quarter in ALCESTER IN THE COUNTIES OF WARWICK AND WORCESTER Volume 06D Page 678


so I think this is the marriage:

Marriages Mar 1867
BAILEY James Alcester 6d 571
COON Helen Alcester 6d 571
HARMAN John Alcester 6d 571
Read Amelia Alcester 6d 571


Jane perhaps illegitimate? But no idea why Harriet has mother's maiden name of Wright. A bit odd.

I've seen this marriage before, but was unsure. The gap is big, and I thought the same as you. The child , Harriet ,is my great grandmother. I recently ordered her birth certificate which I expected to say "Read", but it gave mother as Ellen Amelia Wright. On some census, James' wife is Ellen, other years it's Amelia.
I haven't see" Read "before..where has this come from? Do you think Ellen Amelia could have been married before?
Thank you for your time, Gardener

Is this Henry's baptism?

Name: Henry Bailey
Baptism Date: 4 Feb 1878
Baptism Place: Great Alne, Warwickshire, England
Parish: Great Alne
Father: James Bailey labourer
Mother: Amelia Bailey

That is the only one I can find. It was a "private" baptism and Henry was received into the church 26th May 1878 - quite a few entries like that on the same page, so nothing unusual about it.

The birth registrations with mother's maiden name Read were all from here https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/cert ... /Login.asp

Is there an address on Harriet's birth certificate?

Read is the child`s mother on certificate from this site https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/cert ... /Login.asp now tells the mother`s maiden name on earlier births you need to register free to search and also you can order the certs if need to https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/cert ... /Login.asp

That is Henry's baptism, Gardener. I knew Harriet's d.o.b., so ordered certificate from GRO. It states mother as Amelia Bailey formerly Wright. Address is Great Alne. I previously knew fathers name as James Bailey, but only had Ellen or Amelia from censuses, and wanted her surname to move back a generation. Simple! Yeah....
I'm confused by these alternative "maiden " names! I've tried looking for Amelia's birth and marriage with both surnames on ancestry and freereg, but without success.
Thanks Gardener, and for your advice Rocky. Much appreciated. I'll look into that later.

Other baptisms of James & Amelia's children on Ancestry:-

Baptism: 28 July 1868 Great Alne, Warks
Harriet - James & Amelia BAYLISS - Great Alne - Labourer

Baptism: 14 November 1869 Great Alne, Warks
Emily - James & Amelia BAYLEY - Gt. Alne - Labourer

Baptism: 23 February 1872 Great Alne, Warks
James - James & Amelia BAYLEY, Gt. Alne, Labourer

I'm presuming you already have the 1911 census

1911 Census: Great Alne, Alcester St., Warks
James Bailey, Head.Mar, 69, Farm Labourer, Studley, Warks
Ellen Amelia Bailey, Wife, 73, Pershore Married: 45yrs 5 Children 3 Living 2 Died

They would have been married c1866.

I think the marriage you and Gardener found is the correct one (I can't see the full details on Ancestry). I also think that on the GRO Index where Harriet's mother is listed as Wright, should be Read and there is a mistake. I've also looked on the GRO Index for various spellings for Harriet Bailey/Bayley/Bayliss but can't see mother's name Read.

Well done BCW!

Was Harriet's birth certificate was purchased from the General Register Office?

If so you could try contacting the local office http://www.warwickshire.gov.uk/copycertificates There is an email address at the bottom of the page, under Contact Us, or postal address if you download one of the application forms.

You could attach a copy of the birth certificate and explain that everything points to Harriet's mother's name being Read rather than Wright so would they mind checking their records just in case it was a transcription error at some point.

I don't know about Alcester, but I've seen the system at Bakewell in Derbyshire. They have a lot of what look like school exercise books, filled in in pencil. At the time details were entered onto a form which was sent to the GRO. So it is just possible that the local office has a different surname.

I suppose you could get the marriage certificate first if you want. Then, assuming it looks right, you could send a copy of that too since the marriage predates Harriet's birth.

Yes, I have the 1911 census, & I ordered the certificate from GRO. It never occurred to me that the certificate might be mis transcribed. I'll probably send for the marriage and take it from there. Thank you Rocky, BCW and Gardener. Having someone else's input helps clear the fog!
Incidentally, and may be a coincidence, but whilst looking for Jane Read on ancestry today , I came across an Emma Read with one year old daughter Jane in 1861 listed as paupers in Pershore workhouse...
Thank you for your help.

Yes I saw Emma and Jane too, but I think Emma's age is off. Or at least it is for Amelia. Were you thinking that could be the Emma to match the birth certificate?

Hi Gardener! I too thought the age was off, but it would explain Janes birth, and perhaps there was more mis- transcribing!:)

I forgot to ask...can anyone see Ellen Amelia Read in 1861 census or before ?

I can't see anyone who would fit for Amelia Ellen Read OR Wright, born Pershore abt 1837. Not in 1851 or 1841.

There is an Emma Read at Cropthorn who may or may not be the one in the workhouse.

1841
Thomas Read 30
Hannah Read 25
Ann Read 9
Emmah Read 4
Elizabeth Read 1

1851
Thomas Read 45
Harah Read 39
Ann Read 19
Emma Read 14
Eliza Read 11
Nanah Read 9
Loisa Read 5
Jane Read 3
David Read 9 Mo grandson

1861
Thomas Read 54
Hannah Read 50
Hannah Read 19
Louisa Read 13
Jane Read 12
Dinah Read 7
Thomas Read 5
David Read 11 grandson

But I'm not convinced by any of it.

I completely agree with you Gardener. The workhouse entry goes a little way to explain Jane, but age seems out for mother. I found several Ellen Reads of Worcestershire, but all 1840's. I'll send for marriage soon and see if that shines any light.
Thank you again for your help.