ARC...John Lovell c.1851-1894, the real genealogy
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 9:04 pm
Hi,
I was reading a post on here concerning my Great Great Great Grandfather, John Lovell, born in Dudley in around 1851.
He was killed in a bar fight in the Old Inn in Wolverhampton Street, Dudley on the day after Boxing Day in 1894. His killer was a Gypsy called Henry Arnold.
I have put extensive hours of research into tracing my Lovell side of the family, after hearing from the family that the Lovell's were Gypsies themselves, many years ago.
I found a census record for a "John Lovil" born around 1851 in Dudley, Staffordshire, living as a lodger with a Harriet Lovil born around 1806 in Leicester and Arclus Lovil born around 1847 in Dudley.
I am 100% confident that this is my 3rd Great Grandfather for the following reasons.
1. On the same Black Country article that is referred to in the earlier post about my 3rd Great Grandfather, the family nowadays said they were descended from Gypsy Hawkers.
2. They lived in an unlisted address, presumably a caravan or tent.
3. The people the Lovil's were living with were Gypsies. Benjamin Smith, the head of the "household", was a Basket Maker, a common Romany occupation.
4. They were living, at that time, in Aberystruth, Monmouth, Wales, which was on the Lovell travelling circuit.
On the 1871 census, I found a Harriet Lovell, living at Cross Street, Dudley with a John Lovell, born c.1807, in Dudley, (a Grinder, another common Gypsy occupation) with their son Nixey Lovell was married to Betsy and their children were also living in the house with them. After some research through Gypsy genealogy sites, I found out that the name Nixey, was a shortened version of Nicodemus.
John Lovell (1851-1894), had a son called Nicodemus in 1875 but he died in 1898, dying as a Bachelor. So, I believe, that it is evident that John's parent's were John Lovell and Harriet, as Nicodemus is hardly a conventional name from the 19th century with none Romany families.
Then, in 1881, I found John and Harriet again, this time living with their son Nehemiah Lovell, again, John Lovell jnr. had a son called Nehemiah born in 1884 and died in 1957.
There are also a lack of records for these as Romany's did not like to leave papertrail for people in the future to follow. John Lovell Jnr. is missing on the 1851 and 1871 censuses, possibly because he was out travelling the country and he never officially married his wife, Elizabeth, because if you search for a record for a John Lovell to an Elizabeth Shaw (which I know was her maiden name because I ordered my Great Great Grandfather's birth certificate from 1882), you will not find it.
Also, on the certificate, it says in the father's occupation column that John Lovell (1851-1894) was a Cutler (common Gypsy occupation).
I wanted to set the record straight as a lot of people have been tracing the wrong Lovell family, like I first did, with a John Lovell with parents as William Lovell and Maria Grundy. But, after talking with a relative of this John Lovell through ancestry, it was clear that I was tracing the wrong family, as she had the marriage certificate to Jane Dando, which said his father was William Lovell and this John Lovell had actually moved to the States.
I hope this is seen by people who are stumped trying to trace the Lovell family and hope it helps people.
Regards,
Jack
I was reading a post on here concerning my Great Great Great Grandfather, John Lovell, born in Dudley in around 1851.
He was killed in a bar fight in the Old Inn in Wolverhampton Street, Dudley on the day after Boxing Day in 1894. His killer was a Gypsy called Henry Arnold.
I have put extensive hours of research into tracing my Lovell side of the family, after hearing from the family that the Lovell's were Gypsies themselves, many years ago.
I found a census record for a "John Lovil" born around 1851 in Dudley, Staffordshire, living as a lodger with a Harriet Lovil born around 1806 in Leicester and Arclus Lovil born around 1847 in Dudley.
I am 100% confident that this is my 3rd Great Grandfather for the following reasons.
1. On the same Black Country article that is referred to in the earlier post about my 3rd Great Grandfather, the family nowadays said they were descended from Gypsy Hawkers.
2. They lived in an unlisted address, presumably a caravan or tent.
3. The people the Lovil's were living with were Gypsies. Benjamin Smith, the head of the "household", was a Basket Maker, a common Romany occupation.
4. They were living, at that time, in Aberystruth, Monmouth, Wales, which was on the Lovell travelling circuit.
On the 1871 census, I found a Harriet Lovell, living at Cross Street, Dudley with a John Lovell, born c.1807, in Dudley, (a Grinder, another common Gypsy occupation) with their son Nixey Lovell was married to Betsy and their children were also living in the house with them. After some research through Gypsy genealogy sites, I found out that the name Nixey, was a shortened version of Nicodemus.
John Lovell (1851-1894), had a son called Nicodemus in 1875 but he died in 1898, dying as a Bachelor. So, I believe, that it is evident that John's parent's were John Lovell and Harriet, as Nicodemus is hardly a conventional name from the 19th century with none Romany families.
Then, in 1881, I found John and Harriet again, this time living with their son Nehemiah Lovell, again, John Lovell jnr. had a son called Nehemiah born in 1884 and died in 1957.
There are also a lack of records for these as Romany's did not like to leave papertrail for people in the future to follow. John Lovell Jnr. is missing on the 1851 and 1871 censuses, possibly because he was out travelling the country and he never officially married his wife, Elizabeth, because if you search for a record for a John Lovell to an Elizabeth Shaw (which I know was her maiden name because I ordered my Great Great Grandfather's birth certificate from 1882), you will not find it.
Also, on the certificate, it says in the father's occupation column that John Lovell (1851-1894) was a Cutler (common Gypsy occupation).
I wanted to set the record straight as a lot of people have been tracing the wrong Lovell family, like I first did, with a John Lovell with parents as William Lovell and Maria Grundy. But, after talking with a relative of this John Lovell through ancestry, it was clear that I was tracing the wrong family, as she had the marriage certificate to Jane Dando, which said his father was William Lovell and this John Lovell had actually moved to the States.
I hope this is seen by people who are stumped trying to trace the Lovell family and hope it helps people.
Regards,
Jack
