ARC TBC - Help Please - Michael Grove (or Groves)

[birdbrain]

Can anyone help please I am a rather stuck.
I cant find the parents of Michael Grove (or Groves) Born 1832-3 West Bromwich (deduced from Census listings).
I cant find him in 1861 or 1841 Census. He was a visitor in 1851 so that is of no help.
I also cant find his christening on any of the usual on-line sites.

I found a marriage on Free BMD which I feel confident is correct.
Dudley Sep 1853
GROVES Michael
DAVIES Mary Ann
They are in Vol 6c Page 55.
If I could find the actual certificate I may be able to find his parents.
How would I tell what church it would be from the Vol?
Many thanks in anticipation

[peterd]

GROVES Michael DAVIES Mary A 1853 Dudley, St Thomas West Midlands Dudley Register Office 204/012/435

[peterd]

wonder if this is him and daughter ?

http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/fa ... ove-Family

[peterd]

looks like them

1881; 21 Chapel St, West Bromwich

Michael Grove 49 coal miner
Mary A. Grove 48
John Grove 22 coal miner
Joseph Grove 19 coal miner
Richard Grove 17 iron worker
Catherine Grove 15
Isaac Grove 13
Mary A. Grove 8
all born West Bromwich

[peterd]

1871 Chapel St, West Bromwich

Michael Grones 37 coal miner
Mary A Grones 39 tipton
Elizabeth Grones 17
Pamela Grones 13
John Grones 12 labourer at colliery
Joseph Grones 9
Richard Grones 7
Catharine Grones 5
Isaac Grones 3
Ann R Grones 5 Months
Elizabeth Davis 72 mother in law, Lison, Gloucestershire
rest West Bromwich

[birdbrain]

Thanks for fast reply Peter.
As I do some transcribing for freeReg I have access to some photographs of registers... unfortunately not the relevant years for St Thomas.
At least I know where to look now. Thank you.
I have the census you gave me (well done with the Grones by the way, it took me a good while to find that one!)
The 1871 helped me trace Mary Ann DAVIES back a generation or two but am still stuck with Michaels parents.
Yes, the tribal pages is from Sue (we are related re the Smiths). I didn't realise she had looked up that line (great great grandfather's brother I think Frank is)

[rockyfowler]

Can anyone help please I am a rather stuck.
I cant find the parents of Michael Grove (or Groves) Born 1832-3 West Bromwich (deduced from Census listings).
I cant find him in 1861 or 1841 Census. He was a visitor in 1851 so that is of no help.
I also cant find his christening on any of the usual on-line sites.

I found a marriage on Free BMD which I feel confident is correct.
Dudley Sep 1853
GROVES Michael
DAVIES Mary Ann
They are in Vol 6c Page 55.
If I could find the actual certificate I may be able to find his parents.
How would I tell what church it would be from the Vol?
Many thanks in anticipation

We use this site for West Mids BMD http://westmidlandsbmd.org.uk/cgi/marrind.cgi
Looked up at Archives=

10 Jul 1853 St Thomas Dudley
Michael GROVES F B Miner Dudley Father Michael Groves Furnace Man
Mary Ann DAVIES F S Dudley Father Isaac Davies Labourer
After Banns The X Of Both
Wit; Edward Davies X / Emma Davies X

[birdbrain]

Thanks Heaps Rocky.
Mary Ann Father matches the name I had as a highly probable.
I looked at the site you mentioned and it doesn't give all the information you gave so I assume you looked it up elsewhere for me.
I am extremely grateful, I have been trying to break through that wall for a while.

I am very impressed and really appreciate the help you have both given me (and so quick!)

[Northern Lass]

Thanks for fast reply Peter.
As I do some transcribing for freeReg I have access to some photographs of registers... unfortunately not the relevant years for St Thomas.
At least I know where to look now. Thank you.
I have the census you gave me (well done with the Grones by the way, it took me a good while to find that one!)
The 1871 helped me trace Mary Ann DAVIES back a generation or two but am still stuck with Michaels parents.
Yes, the tribal pages is from Sue (we are related re the Smiths). I didn't realise she had looked up that line (great great grandfather's brother I think Frank is)

Hi I am just going thru this I will add in on BCC in notes that you connect so if anyone
connects they can contact you

Also moving this to the Black Country Genealogy section in a min

[Northern Lass]

Thanks for fast reply Peter.
As I do some transcribing for freeReg I have access to some photographs of registers... unfortunately not the relevant years for St Thomas.
At least I know where to look now. Thank you.
I have the census you gave me (well done with the Grones by the way, it took me a good while to find that one!)
The 1871 helped me trace Mary Ann DAVIES back a generation or two but am still stuck with Michaels parents.
Yes, the tribal pages is from Sue (we are related re the Smiths). I didn't realise she had looked up that line (great great grandfather's brother I think Frank is)

So how do you link bb?

I have put you connect on Michael Grove and Mary Ann DAvies

but is your connection via Frank Smiths brother only?
can you show me on the Bcc site who you connect to and I can slot in your username?

http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tr ... =937802975

[peterd]

1851 Oldbury Lane, west bromwich

Isaac Davis 56 Labourer Burton, Wiltshire
Elizabeth Davis 52 Warmley, Gloucestershire
Mary A Davis 18 brickmaker
Isaac Davis 15 coal miner
Jacob Danis 13 brickmaker servant
Richard Danis 29 bath labourer
Emma Jeffries 11 dudley
rest tipton

[peterd]

1841; Great Bridge, Tipton

Isaac Davies 45 lab
Elizabeth Davies 40
Edward Davies 20
Jos Davies 15
Mary Davies 8
Isaac Davies 6
Jacob Davies 4
Pamela Davies 10 Mo

[peterd]

looks like them

1881; 21 Chapel St, West Bromwich

Michael Grove 49 coal miner
Mary A. Grove 48
John Grove 22 coal miner
Joseph Grove 19 coal miner
Richard Grove 17 iron worker
Catherine Grove 15
Isaac Grove 13
Mary A. Grove 8
all born West Bromwich

1861 33 Chapel St, West Bromwich
mary ann mother elizabeth davies

and at

34 Chapel St, West Bromwich
mary ann brother & wife joseph davies

[birdbrain]

Hi Northern Lass
Frank and Mary Ann Marriage as given by Auntie em (I also have the image which indicates Michael Groves as deceased)

They had 4 children that I know of.
John Smith (known as Jack) who died sometime late 60s early 70s
Emily Smith (known as Aunt Penelope) B. 1891 –92 in West Brom
Fred Smith (My Grandfather) born 21 Nov 1893, Saltworks Cottages, Garston Lancs
Joe Smith B @1902 Garston

In 1891 Census Frank is an Ironworker (pulls over?)
In 1901 Census Frank was a Dock Labourer,

From FreeBMD I concluded that Frank Smith probably died Dec 1902 and Mary Ann married Joseph Jones in March 1904.
In 1911 Census the 4 children were listed with Joseph Jones. I cant find Mary Ann then but found she must still have been alive as I found a letter she sent to the army that survives in the WW1 war archives asking how Fred was after he had been shot. Fortunately I have his discharge papers so I had his army number, there are a LOT of Fred Smiths!

I knew very little of Fred’s side of the family but recently made contact with relatives who live in the Liverpool area

The relative from Liverpool has some family documents and told me Mary Ann was buried on January 26th 1929 in Allerton Cemetery in Liverpool. She was buried as Mary Ann Jones (aged 57 years). Joseph Jones also buried there.
There is also a mystery Frank Smith also buried in the same plot on January 3rd 1939 (aged 24 years).
Neither of us can deduce who he is. It is the legal document that gives that information not a worn headstone so it can’t be Mary Ann’s husband.

Fred Smith (my Grandfather) Married Minnie Elliott 1920. They had 2 children. Joan (my Mom) born 15 Sep 1920 Bolton, and Frank born 1922, Bolton
Joan Married Wilf Ridgway 22 Dec 1945.
Wilf Ridgway Born 18 Jun 1921 in Cannock. (They were pen pals during WW2)
I have gone a good way back with that line as well.

[Northern Lass]

1904

SMITH Mary A JONES Joseph 1904 West Derby, Register Office or Registrar Attended Lancashire Liverpool REG_WD/210/105
SMITH Mary A JONES Joseph 1904 West Derby, Register Office or Registrar Attended Lancashire Liverpool REG_WD/210/152

Do you have this marriage?