Genealogy Forum UK

I am trying to confirm who my Great Great Grandfather was. My research has come up with 2 names - John and William which is the bit that is driving me mad!

This is what I have found to date:

From my father's Birth Certificate, my Grandfather was Walter Ross and Grandmother Florence (formally White).

Walter and Florence married in May 1910, in Barnsley Yorkshire. Walter's age was put down as 28 making his DoB abt 1882ish. His father was John Ross. (my Great Grandfather).

It appears "fibbing" about age is not a new idea!! The only Walter Ross born around that time was registered in 1880. From his Birth Certificate, he was born in September 1880, in Armley Yorkshire (district of Wortley), his father was John Ross, mother Martha (formally Pollitt).

John Ross and Martha Pollitt's Marriage Certificate (November 1879) reveals John was 23 making his DoB abt 1856/57. His father is named as John Ross (deceased) [name No 1 above].

From various census', John Ross was born in Leicester abt 1857.

From 1861 Census, the only John Ross born in Leicester around that time has parents named William [name No 2 above] and Mary.

William and Mary were born in Ireland in 1829 and 1832 respectively.

I can't find any information showing a John Ross with a father named John Ross around that time in Leicester.

As John Ross was stated as deceased, I have checked death records between 1859 and 1879 for John Ross' in Leicester and there have been 5 feasible ones. Of these, 3 of them were born in the 1790's making him in his late 50's when John was born (maybe that is why he was deceased by 1879!

I think I have provided enough information.

If anyone can throw any light on this or point me at a tree to bark up, I would be grateful.

Thank you

Hi. Tricky isn't it?

The John Ross with parents William and Martha in Leicester is this one is it?


Leicester St Margaret
1861
William Ross 32
Mary Ross 29
Margaret Ross 6
John Ross 4
Mary Ross 1

1871
Mary Ross 39
Margaret Ross 16
Mary Ross 12
Elizabeth Ann Ross 10
Selina Ross 4
James Ross 2

1881
William Ross 50
Mary Ross 46
Elizabeth Ross 20
Selina Ross 15
James Ross 11
Joseph Ross 8

William seems to be elsewhere in 1871 (as is John) which means that he can't also be the John named as deceased father in 1879 so it needs a re-think probably.

John Ross and Martha Pollitt's Marriage Certificate (November 1879) reveals John was 23 making his DoB abt 1856/57. His father is named as John Ross (deceased)

Does the certificate give John snr's occupation?
Who were the witnesses?

Looking at the record in the Church Register.

30th May 1910. St George, Barnsley entry 406.

Walter Ross 28 Bachelor Fireman 38 Punies(?) St Barnsley John Ross Dealer

Florence White 23 Spinster - 38 Punies(?) St Barnsley John White Blacksmith

Both signed the register.

Witnesses Frank Armitage ad Laura White (both signed).

Only John Ross dealer I could find in 1911....and he is born in Leicestershire!

1911 census transcription details for: Parriots Grove Hawkesbury Lane Near Coventry

National Archive Reference:

RG14PN18504 RG78PN1109 RD389 SD1 ED19 SN73
Reg. District: Foleshill
Sub District: Foleshill
Parish: Walsgrave on Sowe
Enum. District: 19
Address: Parriots Grove Hawkesbury Lane Near Coventry
County: Warwickshire
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
ROSS, John Head Married 39 years M 74 1837 Dealer Leicestershire
ROSS, Sarah Ann Wife Married F 60 1851 Warwick Folishill Nr Coventry
ROSS, Sarah Daughter Single F 30 1881 Factory Hand Warwick Folishill Nr Coventry
ROSS, Hannah Daughter Single F 27 1884 Factory Hand Warwick Folishill Nr Coventry
ROSS, Arthur Son Single M 23 1888 Miner Warwick Folishill Nr Coventry
ROSS, Ernest John Son Single M 18 1893 Banksman Warwick Folishill Nr Coventry

He says he only had 4 children and they are all living with him in the census.

So this is definitely Walter and family in 1891. Father is a dealer.

1891 census transcription details for: 51, Wood Street, Barnsley

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG12
Piece: 3775
Folio: 17
Page: 27
Reg. District: Barnsley
Sub District: Barnsley
Parish: Barnsley
Enum. District: 23
Ecclesiastical District: St John
City/Municipal Borough: Barnsley
Address: 51, Wood Street, Barnsley
County: Yorkshire (West Riding)
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
ROSS, John Head Married M 34 1857 Smallware & Fancy Dealer Leicester, Yorkshire
ROSS, Martha Wife Married F 30 1861 Barnsley, Yorkshire
ROSS, Walter Son M 10 1881 Scholar Barnsley, Yorkshire
ROSS, William Son M 5 1886 Scholar Barnsley, Yorkshire
ROSS, Annie Daughter F 2 1889 Barnsley, Yorkshire
ROSS, John E Son M 0 (8M) 1891 Barnsley, Yorkshire


ANd 1901

1901 census transcription details for: 104, Park Road, Barnsley
Print Close

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG13
Piece: 4316
Folio: 137
Page: 6
Reg. District: Barnsley
Sub District: Barnsley
Parish: Barnsley
Enum. District: 38
Ecclesiastical District: St John
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 104, Park Road, Barnsley
County: Yorkshire (West riding)
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
ROSS, John Head Married M 44 1857 Smallware Dealer Leicester, Leicestershire
ROSS, Martha Wife Married F 40 1861 Barnsley, Yorkshire
ROSS, Walter Son Single M 20 1881 Engineer Leeds, Yorkshire
ROSS, William Son Single M 15 1886 Smallware Dealers Assistant Barnsley, Yorkshire
ROSS, Annie Daughter Single F 12 1889 Barnsley, Yorkshire
ROSS, John E Son Single M 10 1891 Barnsley, Yorkshire
ROSS, Tom Son Single M 6 1895 Barnsley, Yorkshire
ROSS, Albert Son Single M 4 1897 Barnsley, Yorkshire

Looking at the register entry for the marriage of Walter's younger brother, John Edward Ross.

25th September 1911, St John The Baptist, Barnsley entry 287

John Edward Ross 21 Bachelor Labourer 104 Park Rd Barnsley John Ross Smallware Dealer

Mary Taylor 21 Spinster Domestic Servant 27 Park Rd Barnsley John Taylor (deceased) Farm Labourer

Both signed the register.

Witnesses John Ross ad Annie Medlam (his sister?).

So this is them in 1911.

1911 census transcription details for: 104 Park Road Barnsley

National Archive Reference:

RG14PN27587 RG78PN1578 RD507 SD2 ED28 SN329
Reg. District: Barnsley
Sub District: Barnsley
Parish: Barnsley
Enum. District: 28
Address: 104 Park Road Barnsley
County: Yorkshire (West riding)
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
ROSS, John Head Married M 54 1857 Smallware Dealer Leicester
ROSS, John Edward Son Single M 20 1891 Paper Maker Barnsley
ROSS, Tom Son Single M 16 1895 Glasshand Barnsley
ROSS, Albert Son Single M 14 1897 Assisting In The Business Barnsley
GELDER, Elizabeth H Keeper Widow F 69 1842 Housekeeper Goole

gardener wrote:Hi. Tricky isn't it?

The John Ross with parents William and Martha in Leicester is this one is it?


Leicester St Margaret
1861
William Ross 32
Mary Ross 29
Margaret Ross 6
John Ross 4
Mary Ross 1

1871
Mary Ross 39
Margaret Ross 16
Mary Ross 12
Elizabeth Ann Ross 10
Selina Ross 4
James Ross 2

1881
William Ross 50
Mary Ross 46
Elizabeth Ross 20
Selina Ross 15
James Ross 11
Joseph Ross 8

William seems to be elsewhere in 1871 (as is John) which means that he can't also be the John named as deceased father in 1879 so it needs a re-think probably.

Thank you for your replies.

Yes, these are the ones I talk about above. William was listed in the 1871 census as a Master mariner and was on board a vessel in Whitehaven Harbour. John Ross (jnr) was at a Catholic boarding college in Derbyshire.

gardener wrote:

John Ross and Martha Pollitt's Marriage Certificate (November 1879) reveals John was 23 making his DoB abt 1856/57. His father is named as John Ross (deceased)

Does the certificate give John snr's occupation?
Who were the witnesses?

John senior's occupation is described as "Brushmaker"! Or at least that is what it looks like.
The witnesses were Henry Pollitt and William Bamforth (he has a middle name but I can't make it out).

MarkCDodd wrote:Walter Ross 28 Bachelor Fireman 38 Punies(?) St Barnsley John Ross Dealer

Florence White 23 Spinster - 38 Punies(?) St Barnsley John White Blacksmith

Yes, that is correct. The address for your info was 38 Princess Street (I think )

Thank you for your wonderful replies, they have given me a few more avenues to explore. However, at this time, I am still unable to confirm whether my Great Great Grandfather was William or John.

bfcoakwell wrote:Thank you for your replies.

Yes, these are the ones I talk about above. William was listed in the 1871 census as a Master mariner and was on board a vessel in Whitehaven Harbour. John Ross (jnr) was at a Catholic boarding college in Derbyshire.

Morning!
I thought that this John might become a priest?

1911
Name: John Ross
Age in 1911: 54
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Relation to Head: Boarder
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Leicester, England
Civil parish: Everton
Street Address: St Francis Xaviers College Liverpool
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Catholic Priest

MarkCDodd wrote:So this is them in 1911.

1911 census transcription details for: 104 Park Road Barnsley

National Archive Reference:

RG14PN27587 RG78PN1578 RD507 SD2 ED28 SN329
Reg. District: Barnsley
Sub District: Barnsley
Parish: Barnsley
Enum. District: 28
Address: 104 Park Road Barnsley
County: Yorkshire (West riding)
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
ROSS, John Head Married M 54 1857 Smallware Dealer Leicester
ROSS, John Edward Son Single M 20 1891 Paper Maker Barnsley
ROSS, Tom Son Single M 16 1895 Glasshand Barnsley
ROSS, Albert Son Single M 14 1897 Assisting In The Business Barnsley
GELDER, Elizabeth H Keeper Widow F 69 1842 Housekeeper Goole

From this, it can be seen Martha is missing from the Ross household, but John states he is still married. There is no death certificate for Martha, but there is a 1911 census entry for her. She is someones housekeeper and she states that she is widowed. There is no death certificate for John Ross???? Wow!!!!

Name and status changing was quite common, no law against it then, I have the same situation in my tree, think most of us have. It was a vvery different world back then. Linell