Genealogy Forum UK

Hi

I am struggling with Isaac Johnson (born approx 1848 - 1851) and Sarah Whitehouse (born 1855/56 approx) in the birmingham (Aston?) area. Isaac is to be found marrying a sarah story in 1876 but seems to dissapear and be replaced by a Sarah Whitehouse. I was trying to go to the 1911 census to see what was there but ancestry 1911 is difficult and I have lost my 1911 subscription. I would appreciate any inf at all that might help move this forward. I am not sure if I am dealing with 2 isaacs and sarah's. Whether 1 Isaac had 2 separate families or if Sarah sory is sarah whitehouse as the marriage certificate showed no father and thee is no death to be found. I appreciate any help that can be given. Thank you. Pauline

Is this them Pauline

Isaac JOHNSON Head M Male 33 Birmingham, Warwick, England Bricklayer
Sarah JOHNSON Wife M Female 27 Birmingham, Warwick, England
Sarah JOHNSON Dau Female 4 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar
Mary A. JOHNSON Dau Female 3 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar
Isaac JOHNSON Son Male 3 m Birmingham, Warwick, England


Dwelling 6 Court 2 House 30 Gt Barr Street
Census Place Aston, Warwick, England

So this is them in 1901?

1901 census transcription details for: 1, 2, Court House, Derby Street, Aston
National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG13 Piece: 2854 Folio: 127 Page: 33

Reg. District: Aston Sub District: Deritend
Parish: Aston Enum. District: 7
Ecclesiastical District: St Basils City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 1, 2, Court House, Derby Street, Aston
County: Warwickshire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
JOHNSON, Isaac Head Married M 54 1847 Bricklayer Birmingham
JOHNSON, Sarah Wife Married F 45 1856 Birmingham
JOHNSON, Isaac Son Single M 24 1877 General Labourer Birmingham
JOHNSON, Thomas Son M 19 1882 Caster General Birmingham
JOHNSON, Jenny Daughter Single F 15 1886 Birmingham
JOHNSON, Richard Son Single M 13 1888 Birmingham
JOHNSON, William Son Single M 10 1891 Birmingham
JOHNSON, Laura Daughter Single F 4 1897 Birmingham
JOHNSON, Alice Daughter Single F 1 1900 Birmingham

Close...but not quite....

And what is a wormer

1911 census transcription details for: 9 Little Edward St Birmingham
National Archive Reference:
RG14PN18167 RG78PN1099 RD385 SD1 ED20 SN126

Reg. District: Aston Sub District: Deritend
Parish: Aston Enum. District: 20
Address: 9 Little Edward St Birmingham
County: Warwickshire
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
JOHNSON, Luca Head Married M 69 1842 Bricklayer Labourer Birmingham Warwickshire
JOHNSON, Sarah Wife Married 37 years F 58 1853 Birmingham Warwickshire
JOHNSON, Laura Daughter Single F 19 1892 Wormer Birmingham Warwickshire
JOHNSON, Alarce Daughter Single F 17 1894 Wormer Birmingham Warwickshire

hello

Yes this is the family I thought it was with the 1877 marriage.

linell wrote:Is this them Pauline

Isaac JOHNSON Head M Male 33 Birmingham, Warwick, England Bricklayer
Sarah JOHNSON Wife M Female 27 Birmingham, Warwick, England
Sarah JOHNSON Dau Female 4 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar
Mary A. JOHNSON Dau Female 3 Birmingham, Warwick, England Scholar
Isaac JOHNSON Son Male 3 m Birmingham, Warwick, England


Dwelling 6 Court 2 House 30 Gt Barr Street
Census Place Aston, Warwick, England

Hi

Going by the fact that isaac is a bricklayer yes I thought this was the family.
But then it gets complicated because Sarah story is the Sarah isaac married (no father on the marriage cert) and the children before isaac junier 's mother was sarah story.

After that the children belong to Sarah Whitehouse. I cant find a death for sarah Johnson (storey) or a marriage for Sarah Whitehouse and isaac. Thats where the problem is.

MarkCDodd wrote:So this is them in 1901?

1901 census transcription details for: 1, 2, Court House, Derby Street, Aston
National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG13 Piece: 2854 Folio: 127 Page: 33

Reg. District: Aston Sub District: Deritend
Parish: Aston Enum. District: 7
Ecclesiastical District: St Basils City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 1, 2, Court House, Derby Street, Aston
County: Warwickshire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
JOHNSON, Isaac Head Married M 54 1847 Bricklayer Birmingham
JOHNSON, Sarah Wife Married F 45 1856 Birmingham
JOHNSON, Isaac Son Single M 24 1877 General Labourer Birmingham
JOHNSON, Thomas Son M 19 1882 Caster General Birmingham
JOHNSON, Jenny Daughter Single F 15 1886 Birmingham
JOHNSON, Richard Son Single M 13 1888 Birmingham
JOHNSON, William Son Single M 10 1891 Birmingham
JOHNSON, Laura Daughter Single F 4 1897 Birmingham
JOHNSON, Alice Daughter Single F 1 1900 Birmingham

Could it be that it is one and the same Sarah? If there is no father on the marriage certificate then perhaps she was illegitimate and that can lead to people switching between surnames.
How does Sarah (either) come out in the earlier census?

Thank you now I wanted to see how long the couple said they were married to see how it fits in with the 2 sarah's I see that isaac has become luca? - anyway Married 37 years so they got married 1874 (it was actually 1877) This sort of fits in with the marriage to sarah story though.

is there any milage in this theory. sarah story father unknown finds her dad is a whitehouse. so then uses that name on the birth certificates? I had toyed with the idea that the sarah's are the same person. it's difficult to follow either sarah back untill things are clarified

Other than that I am lost.

A wormer - No idea the mind boggles

xxx

Thank you so much for finding them on the 1911 much appreciated I really did not want to subscribe again to the 1911 census

MarkCDodd wrote:Close...but not quite....

And what is a wormer

1911 census transcription details for: 9 Little Edward St Birmingham
National Archive Reference:
RG14PN18167 RG78PN1099 RD385 SD1 ED20 SN126

Reg. District: Aston Sub District: Deritend
Parish: Aston Enum. District: 20
Address: 9 Little Edward St Birmingham
County: Warwickshire
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
JOHNSON, Luca Head Married M 69 1842 Bricklayer Labourer Birmingham Warwickshire
JOHNSON, Sarah Wife Married 37 years F 58 1853 Birmingham Warwickshire
JOHNSON, Laura Daughter Single F 19 1892 Wormer Birmingham Warwickshire
JOHNSON, Alarce Daughter Single F 17 1894 Wormer Birmingham Warwickshire

Wormer could be a Silk Wormer Birmingham was always knows for it's manufacturing, maybe B'ham also had a thriving Silk Industry

If you have the birth certificates for Issac and Sarah's children, and Sarah's age is constant in the Census, it must be the same lady, maybe her mother Married again, so Sarah decided to give herself a new maiden name too

I don't believe that our Ancestors ever did anything for practical reasons.

Linell.

I found that a wormer has something to do with making screws.

Better than screwer, which is a common occupation amongst my lot.

Hi all

Well I found the census image from the 1911 from the details provided and interestingly enough it shows that sarah and isaac originally put 77 in the space for years married and then crossed it out and put the 37 years. with total children born as 12. Which is correct. So there are not 2 sarah's after all. Just the one. I think that clears it up as far as it can without going back to the certificates just to make sure that they are also correct.

Thank you all very much

A days work well done I think

xxxxx