Searching for my grandmother's birth record

[Northern Lass]

I think you have somat here..and that the Sollars is deffo imp...


So we have a marriage for a George Wm Edward Sollars


Marriages Sep 1883
CANN William Bristol 6a 113
Hawker Maria Bristol 6a 113
SMITH Caroline Anne Bristol 6a 113
SOLLARS George William E Bristol 6a 113


and then birth of a son ...maiden name for mother is Eveleigh.

SOLLARS, ALBERT EDWARD EVELEIGH Order GRO Reference: 1880 D Quarter in BRISTOL Volume 06A Page 3



So George and Caroline split up...
Then he is with Margaret (Smith) on 1911....but can't find a marriage based on the 1911 of 8 years marriage unless it is that 1901 for a George Jones and a Margaret Lewis in neath....

or does he marry later to Margaret as unable to marry whilst Caroline still alive.

Reginald gets married and uses his real fathers name

is that the giste of it

[Northern Lass]

this is interesting

on free bmd
Marriages Dec 1901
Daniel Benjamin John Neath 11a 1499 Scan available - click to view
JONES George Neath 11a 1499 Scan available - click to view
LEWIS Margaret Anne Neath 11a 1499 Scan available - click to view
Phillips Margaret Ann Neath 11a 1499

and then we have in 1926
Marriages Mar 1926 (>99%)
Lewis Margaret E Jones Neath 11a 1238

scrub that ....found the 1926 one...
LEWIS Margaret E JONES Thomas 1926 Bangor, Civil Marriage North Wales Gwynedd (Caernarfon) BAN/69/E20

[gardener]

I think it it is this one

Marriages Mar 1926
Jones John O Lewis Neath 11a 1232


Margaret seems to have been mistranscribed as 1238

[Northern Lass]

I think it it is this one

Marriages Mar 1926
Jones John O Lewis Neath 11a 1232


Margaret seems to have been mistranscribed as 1238

is that one not this one on ukbmd?
LEWIS Margaret E JONES Thomas 1926 Bangor, Civil Marriage North Wales Gwynedd (Caernarfon) BAN/69/E20

and it seems that 1926 is a John Jones on free bmd not george?

[Northern Lass]

On the 1939 did anyone find George Jones/Sollars and wife Margaret
just wondered if he put down dob on that if he is still alive....and then that could be checked with that birth that pascale found

[PascalePC]

....and then birth of a son ...maiden name for mother is Eveleigh.

SOLLARS, ALBERT EDWARD EVELEIGH Order GRO Reference: 1880 D Quarter in BRISTOL Volume 06A Page 3

then her first marriage to a Wm Smith....theres that Smith name again...wonder if Georges second wife is somehow related to this Wm Smith??

Hi Northern lass Thanks for finding this birth for William. I couldn't see a maiden name for his mum in the Findmypast record. I think Caroline married a man called Daniel Smith.

Do these records look about right? (Some censuses have Caroline down as 1847 and 1848, here the only Caroline Eveleigh I could find around then from Gloucestershire was this:

Caroline’s birth:
Caroline Ann Eveleigh
Baptism year 1846
Baptism date 29 Nov 1846
Baptism place Bristol, St Mary Redcliffe, Gloucestershire, England
Father Francis Eveleigh
Mother Jane Eveleigh

So then Caroline’s 1st marriage:
Caroline Anne Everleigh
Marriage date 06 Sep 1868
Marriage place: Bristol, St James, Gloucestershire, England
Father: Francis Everleigh
Spouse's name Daniel Sargent Smith
Spouse's father Edwin Smith
Gloucestershire, Bristol Marriage Index 1644-1939

Caroline and Daniel Smith had a son, William Smith. Born sometime in 1873 (as 1891 census says, describing William as George’s step-son)

Then here is Caroline Smith & George Sollars’s 1st child Albert’s birth: (Thanks Northern Lass )
Albert Edward Sollars
Q4 1880
Mother's last name: Eveleigh
Bristol, Gloucestershire
Volume 6A, Page 3

[PascalePC]

On the 1939 did anyone find George Jones/Sollars and wife Margaret
just wondered if he put down dob on that if he is still alive....and then that could be checked with that birth that pascale found

I think he died in 1932 and is therefore not on the 1939 register:

Death record:
GEORGE W E SOLLARS
Birth year 1863
Age 69,
Death year: Q2 1932
Hull, Yorkshire
Volume 9D, Page 306

Not sure what happened to Margaret Jones (born 1877 though)...

[PascalePC]

I think it it is this one
Marriages Mar 1926
Jones John O Lewis Neath 11a 1232
Margaret seems to have been mistranscribed as 1238

Thanks gardener I think it can be miscounted then as it was John, not George - does that sound right?

[PascalePC]

*NB.
The GRO just gave me a refund for the Edith M Jones 1923 birth record search. The mother's first name can't be Hilda....*

[Jimmy]

possible
Marriages Dec 1887
BOULTON Selina Barton R 6a 235
JONES George Barton R. 6a 235
LEWIS Margaret Barton R. 6a 235
Taylor Francis Barton R 6a 235

George Jones. single. Father: Edward Jones.
Margaret Lewis. single. James Lewis.
Marriage Date: 27 Dec 1887.
Marriage Place: Bristol, Holy Trinity St Philip, Gloucestershire, England.

[PascalePC]

possible
Marriages Dec 1887
BOULTON Selina Barton R 6a 235
JONES George Barton R. 6a 235
LEWIS Margaret Barton R. 6a 235
Taylor Francis Barton R 6a 235

George Jones. single. Father: Edward Jones.
Margaret Lewis. single. James Lewis.
Marriage Date: 27 Dec 1887.
Marriage Place: Bristol, Holy Trinity St Philip, Gloucestershire, England.

Thanks Jimmy & Northern lass, however:

a) I think that George Jones used to be George Sollars and is here with Caroline Ann Sollars, 4 years after the above 1887 marriage:

1891 census
Corbett Street, St George, Barton Regis, Gloucestershire, England
George W E Sollars. Head. Married. Male 28. 1863. Railway Goods Guard Bedminster, Somerset.
Caroline A Sollars. Wife. Married. Female. 44 . 1847. Tailoress Bedminster, Somerset.
Albert E Sollars. Son. Male. 10. 1881 Scholar Bristol, Gloucestershire.
Ethel M Sollars Daughter. Female. 6. 1885. Scholar. Bristol.
Nellie Sollars Daughter. Female. 5. 1886. Scholar. Bristol.
Frances G Sollars. Son. Male. 3. 1888 Scholar Bedminster, Gloucestershire.
Frederick C Sollars. Son. Male . 1. 1890. Gloucestershire.
Adelaide C Sollars. Sister. Single. Female. 17. 1874 Haymaker Bedminster, Somerset.
Edith T Sollars Sister Female 13. 1878. Haymaker. Bedminster, Somerset.
William Smith. Stepson. Single Male. 18. 1873 . General Laborer Bedminster, Somerset.

b) Margaret (Reginald and William's mum) was born around 1877, so she would have been 10 years old in 1887...

[PascalePC]

Does anyone know much about divorce around 1901-1906?

So the way I see it, George Sollars called himself George Jones and possibly married Margaret (whatever-her-surname was-when-they-married) around 1903 (as they claim in the 1911 census) and then Caroline Ann Sollars married William Joseph Skinner in 1906.

On 1911 census with George and Margaret Jones, it says that William’s birth was 1904. I think they either:

a) Didn’t marry and pretended they were married, or
b) There is a marriage for George Jones to a Margaret around 1903, probably in Cardiff. If it isn’t to a Margaret Smith, then Margaret Smith must have married before to someone else. So she was born around 1877, and a marriage must therefore have been from around 1895 to early 1900s.

Maybe they just didn’t marry?
Maybe they just said they were married so their kids, William and Reginald weren’t labelled illegitimate on their birth certificates.
Maybe they married secretly later on in their lives, as you suggested earlier, Northern Lass?

[PascalePC]

Okay, so Margaret (senior) and George. (By the way, how lucky am I to be researching Smiths and Jones in Wales?!) But I have probed a few dead ends and just found a lead I can’t close just yet.

So, could this be a birth record for Margaret (senior, born 1877)? So on the 1911 census of her with George, William and Reginald/Wyndham it says she is from Maesycwmmer, Mon(mouthshire). This is literally just next to Bedwellty..

MARGARET ANN SMITH
Q3 1877
Bedwellty, Monmouthshire, Wales
Volume 11A, Page 76

I then found a marriage to a George Games Jones in 1897, who is not our George ‘Jones’, but a man she married before she met our George (Sollars).

MARGARET ANN SMITH
Q2 1897
MarriageFinder™ MARGARET ANN SMITH married one of these people
Thomas Cann, George Games Jones
Cardiff, Glamorganshire, Wales
Volume 11A, Page 618

This possibly looks like him. The marriage was in Cardiff and he was born in Cardiff:

GEORGE GAMES JONES
Q4 1874
Cardiff, Glamorganshire, Wales
Volume 11A Page 275

So I looked for them in the 1901 census 5 years later and the only thing I could find (for Cardiff) was this. (*NB. It says Blackwood, Monmouthshire as place of birth for Margaret - Maesycwmmer is very close to Blackwood)

1901 census:
54, Angus Street, Roath, Cardiff, Glamorganshire, Wales
Richard Baillien. Head. Married. Male. 53. 1848. Collector (Laundry). Haverfordwest, Pembrokeshire, Wales
Kezia Baillien. Wife. Married. Female. 53. 1848. Devon, England
George Jones. Boarder. Married. Male. 26. 1875. Steam Engine Fitter. Cardiff, Glamorgan, Wales
Margaret Jones. Boarder. Married. Female. 25. 1876. Blackwood, Monmouthshire, Wales

There is no record of them in the 1911 census, or the 1939 register in Cardiff.

Could they have separated, could he have died? (I couldn’t find a death record).

So we have a potentially single Margaret Jones and a potentially separated George Sollars in Cardiff. (I still don’t get it though - why would George Sollars have changed his name to Jones?)

So anyway, even if they didn’t actually marry, George had assumed the name Jones, and Margaret might have already been Jones. George and Margaret Jones.

(*NB* I did find this marriage at the beginning of 1904, in Bedwellty, near to where Margaret was born. Could they have gone there to marry before the birth of their 1st son, William? I can’t get excited though because there are (of course!) other couples called George and Margaret Jones:
GEORGE JONES
Q1 1904
MarriageFinder™ GEORGE JONES married one of these people
Margaret Jones, Agnes Rogers
Bedwellty, Monmouthshire, Wales
Volume 11A, Page 114)

[Northern Lass]

Ok....question what about this one
just so we know ...have we discounted this

Marriages Mar 1910
BROOM Maria Jane Cardiff 11a 656
JONES George Richard Cardiff 11a 656
Nelson William James Cardiff 11a 656
SMITH Margaret Cardiff 11a 656

looks wrong now with what has been found.

So ...how about that bapt you found for George Sollars and his parents..looks good to me.

Birth record:
George William Edward Sollars
Baptism year 1863
Baptism date 04 Jan 1863
Baptism place Bristol, Temple, Gloucestershire, England
Father Samuel Sollars
Mother Sarah Ann Sollars

cos if were me I would go with that and see if you can find a marriage for George Sollars with that father on it.

The marriage in 1883 of George Sollars to Caroline Eveleigh in bristol is it available to view online anywhere
Jimmy?? you can normally find them
or Pascale is it on find my past
or anyone what does that marriage say for George....does it match that bapt with fathers name

then when we have his fathers name we can check marriages that follow???

[Northern Lass]

And another query....I have

Pascale do you actually have the birth certif for Reginald Wyndham Jones
cos on that it would show her maiden name and formerly names...so if married a few times it should show...at least it has for me...
so eg
if she was married this Margaret to George Games JONES on certif for Reginald it should say
mother Margaret JOnes formerly Smith...or something like that ..

that way it would show at that time her name and her maiden name.

So would be worth getting that I think.

I think you might be right Pascale and on 1911 they are not married but she is a jOnes so her kids would be Jones
and that George for appearance takes her name.....

cos when he dies he is
Deaths Jun 1932
Sollars George W E 69 Hull 9d 306

Question.....when does Reginald die and what is his surname...does he use Sollars again?

any electoral info as to Georges surname
does he keep with JOnes ...or change back to Sollars after 1911