Searching for my grandmother's birth record

PascalePC · Post by **PascalePC** » Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:38 pm

*Deleted a lead here that I later discounted*
(I had thought Margaret could have been married before with a maiden name Tout to a Charles Percy Smith, but I found them in the 1911 census...)

SRD · Post by **SRD** » Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:22 pm

PascalePC wrote:Does anyone know where Margaret, (Reginald’s mum, born 1877)’s apparent birth place is - Macoy Crommer Moor? (It says this on 1911 census)

A look at the actual photo shows it's Maesycwmmer, Mon(mouthshire). Nowadays it's in Caerphilly, Gwent but in 1911 it was more likely Glamorgan. Don't you just hate boundary changes?

Googling Maesycwmmer gives more info.

SRD · Post by **SRD** » Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:30 pm

PascalePC wrote:If the above 1901 census record is George, he would have to have met and started having kids with Margaret Smith very soon after this census was taken, as they apparently had 2 children die before William and Reginald were born. Then again - so maybe those deceased children were from previous marriage of Margaret?

I have confused myself trying to find George and Margaret’s marriage, as well as a previous one!!

The two children that died may have been born after Reg. he's 5 in that census so there's plenty of time for two children to have been born between Reg and the census.

PascalePC · Post by **PascalePC** » Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:54 pm

SRD wrote:
PascalePC wrote:Does anyone know where Margaret, (Reginald’s mum, born 1877)’s apparent birth place is - Macoy Crommer Moor? (It says this on 1911 census)
A look at the actual photo shows it's Maesycwmmer, Mon(mouthshire). Nowadays it's in Caerphilly, Gwent but in 1911 it was more likely Glamorgan. Don't you just hate boundary changes?
Googling Maesycwmmer gives more info.

Brilliant, SRD! Thank you - that was bugging me!!

SRD wrote:The two children that died may have been born after Reg. he's 5 in that census so there's plenty of time for two children to have been born between Reg and the census.

Oh yes! You’re right. Thanks

peterd · Post by **peterd** » Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:06 pm

PascalePC wrote:
peterd wrote:you ever thought the final divorce decree might hold something ?
"Contact the court where the divorce, dissolution or annulment took place to get a copy of a decree absolute or final order. It costs £10 if you know the case number. You can pay by: credit or debit card."
or other options https://www.gov.uk/copy-decree-absolute-final-order

Thanks, peterd - do you mean Margaret’s divorce to my french grandfather? What might it reveal, do you think?

not a clue what it would revel poss an address maybe financial arrangement ?

PascalePC · Post by **PascalePC** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:24 am

peterd wrote:not a clue what it would revel poss an address maybe financial arrangement ?

Thanks peterd. I know where she was living when she divorced him (my dad and uncle were living there too) but I wonder if it would give a different maiden name other than Jones. That was the only name my uncle knew about though, so maybe not?

Northern Lass · Post by **Northern Lass** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:55 am

So we have this one ...which I think is the gloucester family I found and was discounted cos wrong George
wife was a Lewis.

Marriages Dec 1887
BOULTON Selina Barton R 6a 235 Scan available - click to view
JONES George Barton R. 6a 235 Scan available - click to view
LEWIS Margaret Barton R. 6a 235 Scan available - click to view
Taylor Francis Barton R 6a 235

Then there is another one in 1887 in Llanelly...again the marriages would need to be tied up to who married whom ..and anyway the name is a Margaret Lewis...ours is a smith....unless maybe his first wife...
Marriages Mar 1887
BOWEN Henry Llanelly 11a 932 Scan available - click to view
Jones George Llanelly 11a 932 Scan available - click to view
LEWIS Margaret Llanelly 11a 932 Scan available - click to view
Samuel Margaret Llanelly 11a 932 Scan available - click to view

Then Pascale you found this one....again Lewis/Phillips and may or may not be our Margaret Smith prev married?

Marriages Dec 1901
Daniel Benjamin John Neath 11a 1499 Scan available - click to view
JONES George Neath 11a 1499 Scan available - click to view
LEWIS Margaret Anne Neath 11a 1499 Scan available - click to view
Phillips Margaret Ann Neath 11a 1499 Scan available - click to view

I think that 1910 cardiff marriage needs discounting.
is it on find my past can someone check...or anywhere online?
Marriages Mar 1910 (>99%)
BROOM Maria Jane Cardiff 11a 656 Scan available - click to view
JONES George Richard Cardiff 11a 656 Scan available - click to view
Nelson William James Cardiff 11a 656 Scan available - click to view
SMITH Margaret Cardiff 11a 656

only thing is year is out...should be about 1902 as on 1911 says married 8 years
and his name is George Richard on this.

I think that Sollars somehow is a clue......why would REginald call himself Sollars.

and I think we need to find Margaret Smith on census pre marriage so where is she in 1901 and 1891
born is it monmouthshire?

I think maybe George was married prev.
Is there a George Sollars b 1863 Bristol Glouces that might fit
wonder if that is Georges real name and Reginald used that asa tribute to father George Edward Sollars
he was very precise on that it was a George Edward ...not just George
any marriage for a Jones and Sollars?

Northern Lass · Post by **Northern Lass** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:04 am

Can anyone find George Jones and wife Margaret on the 1939 find my past please
where does it say they are born and dob pls....

Northern Lass · Post by **Northern Lass** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:58 am

not sure if this is her
SMITH, MARGARET LANGDON
GRO Reference: 1878 D Quarter in NEWPORT Volume 11A Page 179

PascalePC · Post by **PascalePC** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:21 pm

Northern Lass wrote:Can anyone find George Jones and wife Margaret on the 1939 find my past please. where does it say they are born and dob pls....

Thanks for your help, Northern Lass. I can’t find either of them in Fndmypast. Tried the surname Sollars too, just in case. Maybe they died?

Northern Lass wrote:not sure if this is her
SMITH, MARGARET LANGDON
GRO Reference: 1878 D Quarter in NEWPORT Volume 11A Page 179

Newport is in Monmouthshire, but it says 1878, rather than 1877. But could still be her, I guess.

PascalePC · Post by **PascalePC** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:22 pm

I’ll double check everything you suggested, but here’s what I’ve found so far: (NB. William is the name he gave to his 1st child with Margaret and E could well be Edward)

Birth record:
George William Edward Sollars
Baptism year 1863
Baptism date 04 Jan 1863
Baptism place Bristol, Temple, Gloucestershire, England
Father Samuel Sollars
Mother Sarah Ann Sollars

1st Marriage record:
GEORGE WILLIAM E SOLLARS
Q3, 1883
MarriageFinder™ GEORGE WILLIAM E SOLLARS married one of these people
Maria Hawker, Caroline Anne Smith
Bristol, Gloucestershire, England
Volume 6A, Page 113

Death record:
GEORGE W E SOLLARS
Birth year 1863
Age 69
Q2 1932
Hull, Yorkshire
Volume 9D, Page 306

PascalePC · Post by **PascalePC** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:24 pm

I feel this 1901 census is correct:

Census 1901 (Detail)
27 Quarella St. Barry, Glamorgan, Wales
George Jones Boarder Single 38 General Labourer Gloucester Bristol
Boarding in the household of George & Francis Cooper

There is a move from Bristol (where 1911 census says he was born) to Wales - i.e. where he perhaps met Margaret (on 1911 census it says she was born in Wales) and she gave birth to their 1st son, William, in Cardiff.

George Jones is on that 1901 census as a general labourer - there are other general labourers living in that house and the head of the household is also a general labourer. They are all from England. On Reginald’s birth certificate, it says his father George Jones, was a general labourer.

In 1911, they said they had been married for 8 years, which would match his status as single in the 1901 census, indicating he wasn’t with Margaret Smith at that point. His possible marriage to Maria Hawker or Caroline Anne Smith in 1883 in Bristol may have gone sour and he left his wife, moved to Wales to start a new life and changed his name.

PascalePC · Post by **PascalePC** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:21 pm

RIGHT!!! Some really interesting stuff here!!!

Okay so what do you think of this?

George is here in 1881, living with his mother, his father is dead. Also living with him is his son and he is there as married.

1881 census
Glass House Court, Bristol Temple, Bristol, Gloucestershire.
Sarah A Sollars Head. Widow. Female. 41. 1840. Laundress. Clifton, Gloucestershire.
George W Sollars. Son. Married. Male 18. 1863. Warehouseman. Bristol, Gloucestershire.
Henry Sollars. Son Single. Male 8. 1873. Scholar. Bristol, Gloucestershire.
Adelaide Sollars. Daughter. Single. Female 6. 1875. Scholar. Bristol, Gloucestershire.
Edith Sollars Daughter. Single. Female 4. 1877. Scholar. Bristol, Gloucestershire.
Sarah Jewson Boarder Single Female 64. 1817. Nurse (S M). Bristol, Gloucestershire.
Albert Ed Sollars. Grson. Single Male 0. 1881 - Bristol, Gloucestershire

1883 we have a marriage to Caroline Anne Smith

1st Marriage record:
GEORGE WILLIAM E SOLLARS
Q3, 1883
MarriageFinder™ GEORGE WILLIAM E SOLLARS married one of these people
Maria Hawker, Caroline Anne Smith
Bristol, Gloucestershire, England
Volume 6A, Page 113

1891, he is living as the head, with his son and 2 sisters from the previous census, and his wife, a step-son, 3 sons and 2 daughters.

1891 census
Corbett Street, St George, Barton Regis, Gloucestershire, England
George W E Sollars. Head. Married. Male 28. 1863. Railway Goods Guard Bedminster, Somerset.
Caroline A Sollars. Wife. Married. Female. 44 . 1847. Tailoress Bedminster, Somerset.
Albert E Sollars. Son. Male. 10. 1881 Scholar Bristol, Gloucestershire.
Ethel M Sollars Daughter. Female. 6. 1885. Scholar. Bristol.
Nellie Sollars Daughter. Female. 5. 1886. Scholar. Bristol.
Frances G Sollars. Son. Male. 3. 1888 Scholar Bedminster, Gloucestershire.
Frederick C Sollars. Son. Male . 1. 1890. Gloucestershire.
Adelaide C Sollars. Sister. Single. Female. 17. 1874 Haymaker Bedminster, Somerset.
Edith T Sollars Sister Female 13. 1878. Haymaker. Bedminster, Somerset.
William Smith. Stepson. Single Male. 18. 1873 . General Laborer Bedminster, Somerset.

By 1901, they had moved to Wales.

1901 census: (Here you can see his middle name is Edward, like on Reginald’s birth cert)
52, Cyfarthfa Street, Roath, Cardiff, Glamorganshire, Wales
Geo Wm Edw Sollars Head. Married Male. 38. 1863 Railway Goods Guard Bristol, Gloucestershire.
Caroline Annie Sollars. Wife. Married. Female. 53. 1848. Bristol, Gloucestershire
Clara Sollars Daughter. Single. Female. 18. 1883. Bristol, Gloucestershire.
Ethel May Sollars. Daughter. Single Female 17. 1884. Bristol, Gloucestershire.
Nellie Sollars Daughter. Single Female 15. 1886. Domestic Servant. Bristol, Gloucestershire.
Fredk James Sollars. Son. Single. Male. 11. 1890. Bath, Somerset.
Beatrice Sollars. Niece. Single. Female 4. 1897. Bristol, Gloucestershire.

I actually think this other 1901 census is ALSO him, now deciding he is George Jones, perhaps living with a friend who also gave him work? I think 1901 was perhaps the year he separated from his wife.

1901 census:
27, Quarella Street, Barry, Cardiff, Glamorganshire, Wales
George Cooper. Head. Married. Male. 39. 1862. General Labourer. Offord D'Arcy, Huntingdonshire.
Francis Cooper. Wife. Married. Female. 37. 1864. Southoe, Huntingdonshire.
Walter Cooper. Son. Single. Male. 12. 1889. Southoe, Huntingdonshire.
William Cooper. Son. Single. Male. 11. 1890. Buckden, Huntingdonshire.
Charles Cooper. Son. Single Male. 5. 1896. Lutterworth, Leicestershire.
Jesse Anson. Boarder. Single. Male. 54. 1847. General Labourer Hambleton, Yorkshire.
Frederick Watts. Boarder. Single. Male. 28. 1873. General Labourer. Wicklewood, Norfolk.
George Jones. Boarder. Single. Male. 38. 1863. General Labourer Bristol, Gloucestershire.
George M Lacey. Boarder. Married. Male. 23. 1878. Musical Director. Maidenhead, Berkshire.
Dorothy E Lacey. Boarder Married. Female. 20. 1881. Actress London, Middlesex.

I found THIS in 1906:

Marriage record:
CAROLINE ANNIE SOLLARS
Q2 1906
Registration month -
MarriageFinder™ CAROLINE ANNIE SOLLARS married one of these people
William Joseph Skinner, Albert Milford
Cardiff,Glamorganshire, Wales
Volume 11A, Page 755

Then I found the 1911 census for Caroline Skinner, with her youngest son only (Frederick) living with her.

1911 census:

4 Aberdovey St Splott Cardiff, Cardiff, Glamorganshire, Wales
William Joseph Skinner Head. Married Male. General Labourer. 54 1857. London Bermondsey.
Caroline Ann Skinner Wife. Married. Female. 64. 1847. Bristol Somerset.
Frederick James Sollars. Son. Single Male. Railway Porter. 21. 1890 Bath Somerset.
Michael Russell. Boarder. Single. Male. General Labourer. 6. 1885. Dublin Ireland

And of course, the 1911 census we knew about with George and Margaret Jones:

George Jones. Head. Married Male. Marine Stoker. 48. 1863. Bristol Glostershire.
Margaret. Jones. Wife. Married Female. 34. 1877. Macoy Crommer Moor (*Maesycwmmer, Mon(mouthshire)*) Wales.
William Jones, Son, Male. School. 7. 1904. Cardiff Glam
Wyndham Jones, Son, Male, School. 5, 1906, Hull Yorks

OKAY… , now for Margaret Smith:

**** Just editing this - to add that unfortunately I had got confused when looking for a previous marriage for Margaret. I had been looking for Margaret Smith and Arthur Lewis and stumbled upon a 1901 census where Arthur is her baby and her husband is William Lewis. Their was a death record for her baby and no more census of them in 1911. But I muddled it up as I had also seen a marriage record for Margaret Smith and William Lewis - which was actually in 1906, and therefore was after William and Reginald's birth:

I had been thinking this could have been George and Margaret's marriage:

MARGARET ANNE LEWIS, Q4 1901. MARGARET ANNE LEWIS married one of these people: George Jones, Benjamin John Daniel. Neath, Glamorganshire, Wales, Volume 11A, Page 1499

SO - I'm still clueless about a marriage for George and Margaret - but I do feel that those 1901 censuses for George Jones and George Sollars are the same person. ****

PascalePC · Post by **PascalePC** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:24 pm

*** Edited to delete my premature celebration!!***

PascalePC · Post by **PascalePC** » Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:01 am

What does anyone think about the George Sollars research? Any idea about the marriage between George and Margaret (Reginald's parents)? Any more thoughts about Margaret (the one born 1923?)

I had a thought that Reginald might have been in contact with his half brothers/sisters. If the Sollars connection I have made is right, then Reginald knew about his father's real name, so this would be a possibility.

On that note, in case Reginald met Hilda in Wales, where he had some family, I've ordered a birth certificate from GRO for Edith M Jones born 1923 only if the mother's first name is Hilda. (The maiden name is apparently Hardwick on this record.) Hilda's mother's name was Edith. I know if Margaret's DOB is 31/12/1923 that it would have been registered in 1924, but if Reginald and Hilda needed to convince their families that Reginald was the father and they had met while she was pregnant, then telling everyone that Margeret was born later in the year, would have made it believable.
I'll see what results this record yields, if any!

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Searching for my grandmother's birth record

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