*Arc tbc* ----Family Connections for Toy/Toye

[Northern Lass]

I think that is your call Nick
I wouldn't bother at this stage
I would explore any info that has been flagged for a possible baptism for Wm b 1820
and any prev marriage for a William Toy b 1793

also Sarah "Bibb" who did she marry prev and when
that may then rule her out as mother of Wm b 1820

that John allen on marriage of Sarah made an X so although the Thos Allen is somat to do with the church
who is John Allen...might just be anyone
or might connect to family

[NickToye]

Possibles extracted.

William Toy.
Christening, 19 FEB 1819. Shropshire.
Parents:
William Toy.
Winifred Toy.

WILLIAM TAY.
WINEFRED FOLEY.
Marriage: 09 JUN 1818. Saint Phillips, Birmingham, Warwick.

------------------------------------------

WILLIAM TOY.
Christening. 03 APR 1820, Saint Martin, Birmingham, Warwick.
Parents:
WILLIAM TOY.
ANN.

Going to look into this. I notice on BCC William Toy is born abt 1820, I have born at abt 1821, so he may well have been born 1819 and baptised 19th Feb 1819 - and his parents may well be William Toy and Winefred Foley.

[NickToye]

Hugh Wallis site didn't give me anything for Halesowen.

[NickToye]

The dates I have in the census and death records range from 1820 - 1822, and not 1819 - so I'm leaning towards ruling out the 1819 bapt in Feb.

[Jimmy]

Don't go completely on just the census age's they can can be way out. A year or two out is nothing.

[NickToye]

Don't go completely on just the census age's they can can be way out. A year or two out is nothing.

Well It's more often 1821 than any other year, and definitely not 1819. Basically I can only go on the data I have.

I don't suppose any of the dates are that conclusive? Or are the Parishes more likely to be spot on, due to them being handled by an organisation and not some people going door to door?

[Northern Lass]

Don't go completely on just the census age's they can can be way out. A year or two out is nothing.

Agreed Jimmy

Don't go on the Census Nick
We put an about date but that is exactly just that an about date
based on all sorts
Even the death dates can throw up a different dob
so you have to look at all of the dates and then have an about date in your mind

Oh and the parish records
can be a load of rubbish sometimes
especially on marriages
It might be a late bapt, or entered incorrectly etc

[NickToye]

Ok, well I couldn't find another Toy b around 1819 - 1822 in Halesowen, so the 1819 one must be correct right? Could it be a transcript error? What makes me think the 1819 is correct now is because it was written at the time, whereas the census and death records are based on ages right? or what the household member actually says to the censer.

[Northern Lass]

Ok, well I couldn't find another Toy b around 1819 - 1822 in Halesowen, so the 1819 one must be correct right? Could it be a transcript error? What makes me think the 1819 is correct now is because it was written at the time, whereas the census and death records are based on ages right? or what the household member actually says to the censer.

No I wouldn't bank on it being yours Nick
It could be another William Toy

Yours might not have even been baptised
lots weren't
It may be an older bapt ie the child might be age 6 when bapt for eg

so you can only investigate see what occup for father says, abode and then still be uncertain about it

Your William is coming out

1851---b 1822
1861--b 1820
1871--b 1821
death .....b 1821
ish

[NickToye]

Ok, well I couldn't find another Toy b around 1819 - 1822 in Halesowen, so the 1819 one must be correct right? Could it be a transcript error? What makes me think the 1819 is correct now is because it was written at the time, whereas the census and death records are based on ages right? or what the household member actually says to the censer.

No I wouldn't bank on it being yours Nick
It could be another William Toy

Yours might not have even been baptised
lots weren't
It may be an older bapt ie the child might be age 6 when bapt for eg

so you can only investigate see what occup for father says, abode and then still be uncertain about it

Your William is coming out

1851---b 1822
1861--b 1820
1871--b 1821
death .....b 1821
ish

But if there are no other William Toy's in the area b around that time, that show up on any of the other census's, then could that be a good sign?

[Northern Lass]

Its a possible
but only that

He could be from a totally different area and his parents were staying with rellies

[NickToye]

Its a possible
but only that

He could be from a totally different area and his parents were staying with rellies

Ok, so in all honesty then, there is never going to be anything certain at this point in time,

[Northern Lass]

No I would if I were you write to Shrops archives with that IGI entry bapt
ask them if they could possibly tell you which church and would they mind giving you all
the info in the PR for it
they can always say no

worth an ask

I would find that Sarah Bibb prev marriage
I can't see it but only had a quick look

On the 1841 go up and down Crock St seeing if any more Toys
other than the ones we know of ie Wm Toy aged 18 and Wm Toy and Sarah

Wm Toy snr and Sarah Bibb were married prev
who to? and where?

I can move this to Brick Walls and we can then leave it to be chipped away at

[NickToye]

Yeah that's fine.

I wish I didnt have to work on Monday, but I need money.

[peterd]

right been looking at this can anyone highlight the 1841 census william and sarah with son william please ?