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Re: WARREN Joseph, EDWARDS Mary
Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:23 am
by Maths girl
Does this family fit the rumours better?
Sandra wrote:His brothers William and Joseph went by boat to Canada (both where younger than Charles (it appears-very brave adventurers) after their father had died and Mary married again, he(Charles) was supposed to stay but he did not get on with the new dad". Another source said "Grandfather Warren came out about 1892 had 4 brothers who were killed in 1st World War and one sister in England and one sister in Canada ?? Parents were Joseph Warren and Mary Edwards."
1881 55 Park Street, Yeovil Somerset
Joseph Warren 30 Glover
Mary Warren 38 Glover
Charles Warren 15 Labourer
George Warren 11
Joseph Warren 8
William Warren 4 Sarah Warren 2
Albert Warren
All born Yeovil
Re: WARREN Joseph, EDWARDS Mary
Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:00 am
by peterd
here the
1871 South St
Joseph Warren 30 Glove Cutters
Mary J Warren 29 Glove Cutters
Mary A Warren 10
Lucy Warren 8
Charles Warren 5
George Warren 3
all born yeovil
and few doors down poss parents or older brother ?
1871 South St
Chas Warren 52 Glove Cutters
Sarah Warren 52 Glove Cutters
William Warren 19 Glove Cutters
all born yeovil
Re: WARREN Joseph, EDWARDS Mary
Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:24 am
by peterd
1891: 30 Park row, Park st
Mary Ann Warren 50 Wid, glover
Joseph Warren 18 glove cutter
William Warren 16 Tailor
Kate Warren 13 glover
Albert Warren 10
all born yeovil
1901: 188 Park St
Mary A Warren 60 wid living on own means
William Warren 23 glove leather dyer
Albert Warren 20 ? Ironer?
all born yeovil
Re: WARREN Joseph, EDWARDS Mary
Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 10:17 am
by MarkCDodd
I simply based mine on the only marriage of a Joseph Warren and Mary Edwards I could find...
And the 1861 census is that couple.
Wether they are the right family is still to be decided....
Certainly that other Somerset family matches the rumours quite well....
Re: WARREN Joseph, EDWARDS Mary
Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 10:25 am
by peterd
MarkCDodd wrote:I simply based mine on the only marriage of a Joseph Warren and Mary Edwards I could find...
And the 1861 census is that couple.
Wether they are the right family is still to be decided....
Certainly that other Somerset family matches the rumours quite well....
but no stepfather ?
been trying to find passage for charles and and his brothers to canada no luck ?
Re: WARREN Joseph, EDWARDS Mary
Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 10:29 am
by MarkCDodd
Too many Warrens going to Canada.
The manifests do not show enough information.
I checked up Commonwealth War Grave Commision site and there are no entries that stand out as being them.
Re: WARREN Joseph, EDWARDS Mary
Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:12 am
by Sandra
Thank you all for your help. I don't think the Yeovil family are the ones as Charles was 5yrs old in 1881, but the way thing are working out it could be. I don't have anything to prove otherwise, until I find siblings or parents. I appreciate all your help and hope you keep trying to solve my problem. Sandra
Re: WARREN Joseph, EDWARDS Mary
Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 1:23 am
by Sandra
I have been looking at the Yeovil family on the 1881 census - Joseph Warren 30, Mary Warren 38. Charles Warren 15, George Warren 11, Joseph Warren 8, William Warren 4, Sara Warren 2. Is there anyone who can find out the exact dates of birth for this family? Do I put this on the "request for lookups Board" to get this information. I am trying to eliminate each family one by one.
Thank you for your help in advance.
Re: WARREN Joseph, EDWARDS Mary
Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 2:13 am
by MarkCDodd
I have looked through FreeReg, The Genealogist, Findmypast, FamilySearch, Rootsweb and can't find anything that points to these people with any reliability.
I doiubt the first child is Joseph's unless Mary was a cradle snatcher.
They are not consistent in the different census either.
The Parishes they claim they were born in on other census are not in Yeovil.
Since they make gloves, and a tanner was mentioned in one of the certificates, then they are probably a good match.
You would need somebody to sit down with a large set of Somerset Parish Registers to find them for you.
It owuld not be a simple lookup as we can't pinpoint the parish records to look at.
Re: WARREN Joseph, EDWARDS Mary
Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 2:38 am
by Sandra
Your reasoning with regard to the Yeovil family makes sense, no point in asking for some time consuming work if it is unnecessary. Now back to the Warren family from Frome, which seem to be the most likely - What do I do now?
MarkCDodd wrote:So I think the marriage between Joseph and Mary is this one....
Marriages Jun 1857
Warren Joseph Frome 5c 967
Edwards Mary Frome 5c 967
I think the household in 1861 is at Quarry Hill Cottage, Witham Friary, Frome, Somerset.
WARREN, Joseph Head Married M 27 1834 Labourer Witham Friary
Somerset
WARREN, Mary Wife Married F 24 1837 Labourers Wife Witham Friary
Somerset
WARREN, William Son M 3 1858 Scholar Witham Friary
Somerset
WARREN, George Son M 1 1860 Scholar Witham Friary
Somerset
WARREN, Henry Son M 0 (2M) 1861 Witham Friary
Somerset
WHITE, Emily Visitor F 10 1851 Cordwinders Daughter Frome
Somerset
Re: WARREN Joseph, EDWARDS Mary
Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 6:03 am
by Sandra
I finally found where I had originally found the connection between Mary Edward to Maria Hooper it was in the 1881 Census of Ancestry, does this help?
Name: Mary Hooper
[Mary Edwards]
Age: 48
Estimated birth year: abt 1833
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Maria
Gender: Female
Where born: Witham, Somerset, England
Civil parish: Witham Friary
County/Island: Somerset
Country: England
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:
Employment status: View image
Registration district: Frome
Sub-registration district: Nunney
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Maria Edwards 69
Mary Hooper 48
Re: WARREN Joseph, EDWARDS Mary
Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 6:41 am
by Maths girl
Sandra wrote:I finally found where I had originally found the connection between Mary Edward to Maria Hooper it was in the 1881 Census of Ancestry, does this help?
Maria Edwards 69
Mary Hooper 48
Full Details
1881
Maria Edwards 69 Head,Widow b Frome
Mary Hooper 48 Daug, Mar B Frome
Living next door (son of Maria?)
Francis Edwards 37 Railway Packer
Hannah Edwards 36
Steward Edwards 4
Morley Edwards 2
Edwin Edwards 1
ALL born Frome
Re: WARREN Joseph, EDWARDS Mary
Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 7:04 am
by Maths girl
Sandra wrote: http://www.fromeresearch.org.uk/Same site -
Marriages at St Mary's, Witham Friary, 1838-1900
30 Apr 1857
Joseph
WARREN
(X) Full age, Bch otp, Labourer
[blank] , [blank]
William WHITE
Banns
Mary
EDWARDS
Full age, Sp otp,
Domestic Servant Charles EDWARDSLabourer,
Sarah PALMER
I was interested by the following entries for Witham Friary
1851 Witham St, Witham Friary
Charles Edwards 44 Ag LabMaria Edwards 39
George Edwards 17 Ag Lab
Elizabeth Edwards 15
John Edwards 13 Ag Lab
Thomas Edwards 8
William Edwards 5
Charles Edwards 3
Anne Edwards 2
Sarah Edwards 1 Mo
All born Witham Friary
1851Frome Union Workhouse
Mary Edwards 15 Pauper 15
Jane Edwards 10 Pauper 10
Both born Witham Friary
It could be that with a large family like this they had to ask for help/send two daughters to Workhouse - the authorities used to try to find Domestic Work for girls of the right age - see Marriage cert and father Charles was a Labourer
Re: WARREN Joseph, EDWARDS Mary
Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 7:14 am
by Maths girl
I was interested by the following entries for Witham Friary
1851 Witham St, Witham Friary
Charles Edwards 44 Ag Lab
Maria Edwards 39
George Edwards 17 Ag Lab
Elizabeth Edwards 15
John Edwards 13 Ag Lab
Thomas Edwards 8
William Edwards 5
Charles Edwards 3
Anne Edwards 2
Sarah Edwards 1 Mo
All born Witham Friary
1851Frome Union Workhouse
Mary Edwards 15 Pauper 15
Jane Edwards 10 Pauper 10
Both born Witham Friary
It could be that with a large family like this they had to ask for help/send two daughters to Workhouse - the authorities used to try to find Domestic Work for girls of the right age - see Marriage cert and father Charles was a Labourer
1861 Street, Witham
Charles Edwards 53 Farm Labourer
Maria Edwards 48
Mary Edwards 28 Farm Labourer
John Edwards 22 Farm Labourer
Thomas Edwards 18 Farm Labourer
William Edwards 16 Farm Labourer
Charles Edwards 14 Farm Labourer
Fanney Edwards 10 Farm Labourer
Jane Edwards 8 Farm Labourer
Mary still with this family in 1861 unmarried which is after marriage of Mary Edwards to Joseph Warren 1857 - so this is
not the right family to fit with the marriage we are looking at
Re: WARREN Joseph, EDWARDS Mary
Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 7:31 am
by Maths girl
1861Street Ct Witham Friary
Emanuel Anford 78 Shoemaker
Charles Edwards 49 Son in Law Labourer
Maria Edwards 48 Daug
Benjamin Edwards 20 Grson Labourer
Charles Edwards 13 Grson Labourer
All born Witham Friary
1851 Witham Friary
Charles Edwards 37 Agricultural Labourer
Maria Edwards 36 Employed at home
Benjn Edwards 11 Agricultural Labourer
William Edwards 9 Scholar
Hannah Edwards 7 Scholar
Charles Edwards 1
These girls would fit even better in this family if they were struggling after birth of Charles
1851Frome Union Workhouse
Mary Edwards 15 Pauper 15
Jane Edwards 10 Pauper 10
Both born Witham Friary
and this ties them together
1841 Street Witham Friary
Charles Edwards 25 Ag Lab
Maria Edwards 25
Mary Edwards 5
Benjamin Edwards 2
William Edwards 1 Mo
Whether this is Sandra's family has still to be seen and whether this Mary Edwards having married Joseph Warren then married ? Hooper who was the wicked stepfather -----??