ARC TBC - Great Grandfather Samuel John Hudson

[Jimmy]

Samuel Senior, this fits with being born in 1844, as 1891 census.

Deaths Jun 1898.
Hudson Samuel. 54. Hastings. 2b. 29.

[jesterhud]

Samuel Senior, this fits with being born in 1844, as 1891 census.

Deaths Jun 1898.
Hudson Samuel. 54. Hastings. 2b. 29.

But this means he died before the 3 children he fathered were born, on son Samuel and daughter Alices birthcerts he is named as the Father in 1899 and 1901 respectivly.

I have seen all the posted info about Samuel Hudson born in Chatham with Mother Jane from Crewkerne, and i suspect this might be him, but i just cannot tie them up, hence my brick wall !!

[Jimmy]

The Samuel that died in 1898, could have the father of the Samuel who fathered the children.

[jesterhud]

Ah i see what you mean, yeah maybe

[Maths girl]

The Samuel that died in 1898, could have the father of the Samuel who fathered the children.

I think this is looking possible.
To recap:

All others Ship canal Labourers.
Same [color=#FF4000]Jane as 1901 census, with husband Samuel.
Labourers on the canal were also called Navvies.

1891. Wooden Hut, Acton Grange. Cheshire.
Samuel Hudson 47. Ship canal Labourer. Signalman. born, Briey, Lincolnshire,
Jane Hudson 44. Crewkern, Somerset,
Ellen Hudson 18. Dau, Dressmaker. born, Whissington, Durham.
Charles Glastonbury 20.
Thomas Smith 74.
Thomas Cummings 23.
Isaac Parker 40.

All others Ship canal Labourers.[/color]

1901. Railway settlement, Crowhurst, Sussex.
Jane Hudson 56. Head. Widow. born: Crewkerne, Somerset
Samuel Hudson 31. Son, born, Chatham, Kent, Excavator Navvy.
William Fuller 49.
Edward Williams 34.
William Robinson 38.
John Baldwin 39.
William Wright 22.
William Green 52.
Thomas Smith 38.

All others lodgers and excavator Navvies.

Is it possible to find both Samuel's in 1881 with Jane?

[Jimmy]

Hi MG,

I can't see them together or separate.

[Maths girl]

Hi MG,

I can't see them together or separate.

Neither could I - looking at 1871 now

[Jimmy]

Not far from Chester.

1891. Manchester Ship Canal Works. Hooton, Cheshire.
Joseph Mead 29. Head.
Sarah E Mead 23.
Joseph Walton 21.
Arthur Sanderson 37.
George Powell 16.
James Long 22.
Samuel Hudson 22. Chatham, Kent,
Albert Marshment 21.


All others lodgers
All general labourers

[Jimmy]

This looks like the family in 1881, judging by the birth places, they moved around a bit.

It also looks like Holman on the Image, is it mistranscribed or indexed wrong. or did they change the name.

1881. High St, Eston, Yorkshire.
Samuel Holman 37. General labourer. born Spowden, Lincoln.
Jane Holman 34. Somerset.
Mary Holman 13. Kent.
Samuel Holman 12. Chatham.
Ellen Holman 8. Wolsingham, Norfolk.

[Jimmy]

This looks like the same family.

1871. Muggleswick, Durham.
Saml Hudson 27. Navvy, born, NK.
Jane Hudson 24. NK.
Ford Harvey 18.
Thomas Withem 10.
Thos Johnson 22.
Ricd Grambarth 27.
Jos Webb 47.
Jos Dann 10.
Sl Hudson 2. Son, Looks like Samuel, born, New Bromton, which is Kent
Lilly Hudson 2. Dau. born, New Bromton.
James Denton 16.
Geo Brown 20.
Wm Mills 30.
Robt Rampton 56.
Jos Brown 30.

All others Navvies.

[jesterhud]

Thanks for all the answers so far, keep em coming its all good stuff.

To recap, my great great grandfather Samuel John Hudson is the man i am after, anything on him, birth, marriage, death etc..
His partner/wife was Emma Somerwill who was born in Swimbridge Devon in 1871, she had 2 illegitimate children in Devon , Beatrice in 1893 and Elsie in 1896.
She moved to Hastings between 1896-1899, and took Elsie with her, she then had 3 more children Samuel John (junior) 1899, Alice Minnie 1901 and George Henry 1906 (my grandad), the birth cert for Samuel and Alice show Samuel John Hudson as the Father with an occupation of Navvy, no birth cert seems to exist for the last born George.

There are 2 possible leads we have for Samuel Snr.

Samuel John Hudson born Barnstaple 1854 , Barnstaple is about 3 miles from Swimbridge so is in the right area where Emma came from, but he is 16yrs her senior and cannot be traced on any document other than the 1881 census in Battle Hastings, again the right area where Emma ended up.

or

Samuel John Hudson born in Chatham Kent in 1869, more Emmas age, shown on the 1901 census as a Navvy living near Hastings.

Samuel supposedly died C1911 whilst working on Railways, not necessarily in an accident, just whilst employed on the railways.

Thanks again

[Maths girl]

This looks like the family in 1881, judging by the birth places, they moved around a bit.

It also looks like Holman on the Image, is it mistranscribed or indexed wrong. or did they change the name.

1881. High St, Eston, Yorkshire.
Samuel Holman 37. General labourer. born Spowden, Lincoln.
Jane Holman 34. Somerset.
Mary Holman 13. Kent.
Samuel Holman 12. Chatham.
Ellen Holman 8. Wolsingham, Norfolk.

That was well spotted Jimmy - Mind you they obviuosly had problems either remembering where the chiildren were born or communicating with the locals on census night-
did you notice Ellen in 1891
Ellen Hudson 18. Dau, Dressmaker. born, Whissington, Durham.

[Maths girl]

There are 2 possible leads we have for Samuel Snr.

Samuel John Hudson born Barnstaple 1854 , Barnstaple is about 3 miles from Swimbridge so is in the right area where Emma came from, but he is 16yrs her senior and cannot be traced on any document other than the 1881 census in Battle Hastings, again the right area where Emma ended up.

or

Samuel John Hudson born in Chatham Kent in 1869, more Emmas age, shown on the 1901 census as a Navvy living near Hastings.

Samuel supposedly died C1911 whilst working on Railways, not necessarily in an accident, just whilst employed on the railways.

Just a question because I have lost track - is there any possibilty that SJH born Barnstaple 1854 is the father of SJH born Chatham 1869? Do they ever appear in the same census but obviously in different places in such a way that it couldn't be someone being recorded as living at home when actually they were elsewhere on census night and recorded as there as sometimes happens?

[jesterhud]

Well possibly but he would have only been 15 when he had SJH Jnr, and would have moved from Devon to Hastings before the age of 15, unlikely i reckon.

[Jimmy]

There are 2 possible leads we have for Samuel Snr.

Samuel John Hudson born Barnstaple 1854 , Barnstaple is about 3 miles from Swimbridge so is in the right area where Emma came from, but he is 16yrs her senior and cannot be traced on any document other than the 1881 census in Battle Hastings, again the right area where Emma ended up.

or

Samuel John Hudson born in Chatham Kent in 1869, more Emmas age, shown on the 1901 census as a Navvy living near Hastings.

Samuel supposedly died C1911 whilst working on Railways, not necessarily in an accident, just whilst employed on the railways.

Just a question because I have lost track - is there any possibilty that SJH born Barnstaple 1854 is the father of SJH born Chatham 1869? Do they ever appear in the same census but obviously in different places in such a way that it couldn't be someone being recorded as living at home when actually they were elsewhere on census night and recorded as there as sometimes happens?

I cannot see a Samuel born 1854. I can see Samuel senior born about 1844, possibly being the father of Samuel born in Chatham in 1869, at the of about 25.