Genealogy Forum UK

gardener wrote:

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Do you know where in Worcs she was baptised?...or what denomination she was...
where in worcs was she born?

Just wondering if she maybe baptised Margaret at a worcs. church.

1891
5 Fair Fox Place, South Claines
Mary Ann Johnson (lodger) 46 Worcs St Nicholas
William H Hardwick 31 Worcs St Pauls
Edith Hardwick 28 Worcs St Nicholas
William Hardwick 6 Worcs St Nicholas
James Hardwick 5 Worcs St Mary
Annie Hardwick 3 Worcs St Mary
Nellie Hardwick 1 Worcs St George

Baptism
James Hesper Hardwick 3 Apr 1887 St. Mary Magdalene's, Worcester, Worcester, England William, Edith

Thank you for finding these, gardener!! Where should I go with this next, do you think?

Northern Lass wrote: Do you know where in Worcs she was baptised?

Hi Northern Lass, I just thought - on Hilda's birth certificate, it says she was born at 14, York Place, Worcester.... It looks like they baptised their kids near to where they lived (in different churches). I'll have a browse of churches nearby ...

PascalePC wrote:Did you mean for me to ignore what you mentioned about George E Sellars/Sollars?

No, just the bit about the 1911 Census not being kosher.

SRD wrote:

PascalePC wrote:Did you mean for me to ignore what you mentioned about George E Sellars/Sollars?

No, just the bit about the 1911 Census not being kosher.

Oh, I see. My thinking is that the marriage certificate matches the 1911 census and the 1931 electoral roll records really well.

On the marriage cert, George Edward Sollars has an occupation as Marine Engineer. Pattern Maker was Reginald's profession on the marriage certificate... In 1911 census with George, Margaret, William and Wyndham, George has the profession of Marine Stoker.

What are your thoughts? (Hilda has all the correct details on the marriage cert.)
Thanks

The 1891 census shows (I think) the districts of Worcester that the people were born in. Assuming that they are correct, then it would give a starting place to look for the baptisms. I can't find any on line apart from that one for James.

I suppose you could slog through the whole family and see if any of them moved to the Hull area. But it is a big family and there were lots of aunts and uncles too so it would be a massive task.

I did get excited by some baptisms but they turned out to be for a totally different William Henry/Edith living Sheffield I think and not connected at all

Someone on here probably knows the best place to look for Worcester baptisms.

PascalePC wrote:

SRD wrote:

PascalePC wrote:Did you mean for me to ignore what you mentioned about George E Sellars/Sollars?

No, just the bit about the 1911 Census not being kosher.

Oh, I see. My thinking is that the marriage certificate matches the 1911 census and the 1931 electoral roll records really well.

On the marriage cert, George Edward Sollars has an occupation as Marine Engineer. Pattern Maker was Reginald's profession on the marriage certificate... In 1911 census with George, Margaret, William and Wyndham, George has the profession of Marine Stoker.

What are your thoughts? (Hilda has all the correct details on the marriage cert.)
Thanks

I agree, that's a straightforward link, I was trying to track down why Reginald might be calling himself Sollars with a father George Edward, as far as those records go that George Jones wasn't George Edward.

gardener wrote:The 1891 census shows (I think) the districts of Worcester that the people were born in

Thanks gardener, ah so the St Paul's, St Mary's etc are areas. Thanks for searching How about I approach St Mary Magdalene’s church in Worcester (in case it is the family church)? I could ask of they have a baptism records for Hilda Hardwick, born 08/05/1902 (14 York Place, Worcester). And Margaret Hardwick, born 31/12/1923. I’m not sure if people can contact churches directly for info from their archives though(?)

SRD wrote:I agree, that's a straightforward link, I was trying to track down why Reginald might be calling himself Sollars with a father George Edward, as far as those records go that George Jones wasn't George Edward.

Hi SRD, yes the middle name, Edward, does just suddenly appear there. Did you think it could be that George Jones isn’t Reginald’s real father and he has put the name of his real father, George Edward Sollars, on his marriage certificate? Is this what you meant when you wondered if he had been illegitimate? George Jones and Margaret Jones, formerly Smith, are on his birth certificate though… Oh this is such a brain ache! Haha. Thanks for your help

Hardly any churches keep their parish records now, except for the "active" volumes. If it is this one http://www.worcesterbmsgh.co.uk/parish/ ... he-tything then it is no longer a church anyway! Worcester archives should have the records, but asking them to search for you is likely to be expensive

I contacted Worcester archives earlier via their contact form. So I'll see what they advise me to do ... Yes it does look like that's the church, so contacting them wouldn't happen anyway then! Thanks for your help, gardener

So on the 1911 this is Reginald
1911 census.
10 Henry Terrace West Parade, Holy Trinity, Hull, Yorkshire
George Jones 48
Margaret Jones 34
William Jones 7
Wyndham Jones 5

So this is his birth
JONES, REGINALD WYNDHAM SMITH
GRO Reference: 1905 J Quarter in HULL Volume 09D Page 324

so where is the marriage of George Jones ...and Margaret smith ..is that dob on 1911 correct if so he is born est 1863
and she is b 1877

And re the denominations ...the 1891 has the districts they were born in....
and Margaret the one b 1923 was married in a C. of E church St Pauls

Hildas brother is it this one?
Baptism
James Hesper Hardwick 3 Apr 1887 St. Mary Magdalene's, Worcester, Worcester, England William, Edith

is St Marys a C of E?

Just thinking that the 1891 with the church districts on might be worth looking at the c of E in Worcs...but would be a long job
and then they might have been bapt elsewhere.

That Sollars I think holds a clue

On that 1911 where does it say Reginalds brother is born
can't see his birth...
and

where are Margaret smith and George Jones born.

Northern Lass wrote:So on the 1911 this is Reginald
1911 census.
10 Henry Terrace West Parade, Holy Trinity, Hull, Yorkshire
George Jones 48
Margaret Jones 34
William Jones 7
Wyndham Jones 5

So this is his birth
JONES, REGINALD WYNDHAM SMITH
GRO Reference: 1905 J Quarter in HULL Volume 09D Page 324

so where is the marriage of George Jones ...and Margaret smith ..is that dob on 1911 correct if so he is born est 1863
and she is b 1877

Oh dear, a George Jones marries a Margaret Smith, at least he wasn't John. The 1911 Census also shows married 8 years which helps but is also pretty late, making him 40 and her 26 so it may also be that either had been married before and that Margaret wasn't Smith on the marriage records.
Is the birth record of William Jones/Smith? By the way, there were two other children of the marriage, both dead.
1911
10 Henry Terrace West Parade, Hull, Yorkshire
George Jones Head 48 Married Marine Stoker Bristol Gloucestershire
Margaret Jones Wife 34 Married Maesycwmmer. Mon
Married: 8 years
Children born: 4
Children living: 2
Children dead: 2
William Jones Son 7 School Cardiff, Glam
Wyndham Jones Son 5 School Hull, Yorks

PascalePC wrote:

SRD wrote:I agree, that's a straightforward link, I was trying to track down why Reginald might be calling himself Sollars with a father George Edward, as far as those records go that George Jones wasn't George Edward.

Hi SRD, yes the middle name, Edward, does just suddenly appear there. Did you think it could be that George Jones isn’t Reginald’s real father and he has put the name of his real father, George Edward Sollars, on his marriage certificate? Is this what you meant when you wondered if he had been illegitimate? George Jones and Margaret Jones, formerly Smith, are on his birth certificate though… Oh this is such a brain ache! Haha. Thanks for your help

That is what I was thinking. If Sellars/Sollars was Reg's father, and Reg found out about it, he may have decided to take that side of the family as his own, declaring it on his wedding cert, but later made up with George & Margaret hence living with them in 1931. Which is an interesting story but it's all fanciful and couldn't be proved.

Another thing, how do you know that Reg wasn't Margaret's natural father? If it's hearsay passed through generations then it may be that the original story was that George & Margaret Smith (or at least one of them) weren't Reg's natural father and that the story has got mangled in the re-telling. It's an expensive way to go and might involve contacting a lot of strangers but DNA testing might sort it out.

A couple of points, can you find George & Margaret on other Electoral rolls? If they're living apart maybe there was a matrimonial bust up over Reg's paternity that was resolved.

And another, might it be that there were two Reginald Wyndhams, one Jones one Sollars?