Genealogy Forum UK

I know I've already given you this information Oldbill, by kind permission of Tony Hitchmough's Black Country Pubs

Ezra Crampton was licensee at the Waggon and Horses in 1824 , 100, Reddal Hill Road, Spinners End (Fox Oak), Old Hill. There is a picture of this pub in 1983 and another in 2005, so it might still be there

Frederick Crampton was licensee at the Handel Hotel, 94, Oldbury Road (Market Place), / Birmingham Road, Blackheath in 1924 (might be related) - it was opposite the Shoulder of Mutton, which is still there.

Maggie

Antie Em wrote:I know I've already given you this information Oldbill, by kind permission of Tony Hitchmough's Black Country Pubs

Ezra Crampton was licensee at the Waggon and Horses in 1824 , 100, Reddal Hill Road, Spinners End (Fox Oak), Old Hill. There is a picture of this pub in 1983 and another in 2005, so it might still be there

Frederick Crampton was licensee at the Handel Hotel, 94, Oldbury Road (Market Place), / Birmingham Road, Blackheath in 1924 (might be related) - it was opposite the Shoulder of Mutton, which is still there.

Maggie

1901 Beecher Street, Cradley
CRAMPTON, Ezra Head Married M 30 1871 Chainmaker Cradley, Worcestershire
CRAMPTON, Mary A Wife Married F 29 1872 Old Hill, Staffordshire
CRAMPTON, Fredk Son M 7 1894 Cradley, Worcestershire
CRAMPTON, Beatrice M Daughter F 4 1897 Cradley, Worcestershire
CRAMPTON, Lily Daughter F 1 1900 Cradley, Worcestershire

THIS MIGHT BE FREDERICK ?

Maths girl wrote:Started this off so introductions can be kept for introductions

OldBill wrote:I am researching a public house recorded in the 1908 Kelly's Directory as the Horse Shoe, Colley Gate. The licensee at this time was Philip Henry CRAMPTON. His brother Ezra is also listed in the same Kellys as a 'Brewer, Colley Gate'. I have found no other reference to this premises and cannot positively establish where it was located within the area. However, I have been informed that the premises could be what is known as the Gate or Colley Gate Inn. Can anyone help please?

1911, Colley Gate Inn, Cradley.
Benjamin Tromans 24. Chain maker, Licenced Victualler. Cradley, Worcestershire.
Elsie Tromans 22. Cradley, Worcestershire.
Fredrick Tromans 2. Cradley, Worcestershire.
Leslie Tromans 4/12. Cradley, Worcestershire.

Married 2 years. 2 children.

West Midlands Marriage indexes for the years: 1915.
TROMANS Benjamin. BRADLEY Elsie. Cradley Heath, St Luke Sandwell Register Office. 20/6/390.

I think Jimmy has reinforced my own thoughts regarding The Colley Gate Inn. Ie. the Colley Gate Inn is not the Horse Shoe. Frederick looks to be Philip's nephew and I am conscious Philip had an uncle Ezra born abt 1842.

Thanks Aunt Em for putting me right regarding 'North East Side'. Fantastic!

so are you still looking for the Horseshoe Inn Bedcote St Cradley?
sorry not really following this thread?

The archives have a street index not sure from what years.
Would the electoral registers help?

Yes. The 1871 Census lists the Horse Shoe Inn in Bedcote Street. Then i believe it disappears. Perhaps the road is renamed but in 1908 the name of the pub comes up again in Kellys listed under Colley Gate with Philip 'running it.' I also see the name of the premises is shown as two words in both the 1871 census and the 1908 kellys. I don't believe this was a common way to spell horseshoe, so at the moment, it is just another tantalising factor pointing towards the target premises.

So have we got the right pub situated some time after 1871 but before the 1881 census, in a renamed road that once was Bedcote Street? OR back to square one!

Oh for Victorian Google Earth!

Hi Bill, Colley Gate is an area, at the top of Windmill Hill, encompassing Beecher Fields and Two Gates. Did you see this message I posted the other day regarding Bedcote Street:-

Bedcote was an ancient Parish between Stourbridge and Old Swinford, it was encompassed into the Parish of Stourbridge. Two Gates and on into Oldnall and down into Wollescote, Lye then Stourbridge was the main road a couple of hundred years ago. I have no idea where Bedcote Street was in Cradley, yes a lot of the roads have all be changed and re-named Bill, not much of the old Cradley left now, we know the Crampton family lived in the Windmill Hill and Two Gates area of Cradley which as I described was the main road to Stourbridge all those years ago, it would stand to reason that Bedcote Street was in that area.

Linell.

Hi linell,

Yes I saw your message thanks and I see now, that it must have been a sizeable manor in its day. I agree with you that we are in the right area and if I were a betting man, I would say the Horse Shoe mentioned in the 1871 census is the one referred to in 1908 kellys.

The only way I can think to bottom this out is by reference to early maps and a visit to the records. Unless anyone can think of an online method to reduce or pinpoint my search....

OldBill

Ezra Crampton was licensee at the Waggon and Horses in 1824 , 100, Reddal Hill Road, Spinners End (Fox Oak), Old Hill. There is a picture of this pub in 1983 and another in 2005, so it might still be there


The waggon and horses on foxoak street still survives it is now on the new cradley heath bypass

OldBill wrote:Hi linell,

Yes I saw your message thanks and I see now, that it must have been a sizeable manor in its day. I agree with you that we are in the right area and if I were a betting man, I would say the Horse Shoe mentioned in the 1871 census is the one referred to in 1908 kellys.

The only way I can think to bottom this out is by reference to early maps and a visit to the records. Unless anyone can think of an online method to reduce or pinpoint my search....

OldBill

Hi Bill, there are maps on here from the Cradley Links Web Site. Trouble is with these old maps only the main streets seem to be named:- http://www.cradleylinks.com/maps.html

Pigots Directory for 1835 has 'Horse Daniel Mole Cradley' and 1844 has 'Daniel Mole Horse Shoe Colley Gate.'

Billings 1855 Directory 'Fanny Mole Blacksmith and Victualler Colley Gate' (would guess this was Daniel's Widow, so the premises also doubled as a Blacksmith, that may be on a Map?)

Prestons 1860 Directory has 'W. Mole Blacksmith' (no address, maybe son of Daniel, can check on the Census.)

Kelly's 1860 Directory has two Moles 'Mole William, beer retailer, Colley gate' and Mole William Henry, blacksmith, Colley gate. Can check them out on the 1861 Census.

Kelly's 1864 Directory has three Moles 'Mole Lucy (Miss), beer retailer, Colley gate' 'Mole William, beer retailer, Colley gate'
'Mole William Henry, blacksmith, Colley gate' I presume that these entries are to do with the Horse Shoe, the name fits and the Horse Shoe has not been mentioned since 1855?

Jones Mercantile Directory 1865 'Mole Lucy, beer retailer, Colly gte, Cradley' 'Mole W. Hy, blacksmth, Colly gte, Cradley'

Kelly's Directory 1868 'Mole Lucy (Miss), beer retailr. Colley gate' 'Mole Wm. Hy. blacksmith, Colley gate' I know you are not looking for Moles, but I am just tracking the history.

Post Office Directory 1872 'Mole Fanny (Miss), beer retailer, Colley gate' 'Mole Wm. Hy. blacksmith, Colley gate'

Kelly's Directory 1876 'Mole Jane (Miss), beer retlr. Colley gate' 'Mole Wm. Hy. blacksmith, Colley gate'

Same for Kelly's 1878 and 1880.

Kelly's Directory 1884 'Mole Albert, blacksmith, Colley gate' 'Mole Jane (Miss), Horse Shoe, Colley gate'

Kelly's Directory 1888 'Mole Albert, Horse Shoe P.H. & blacksmith Colley gate.'

Kelly's Directory 1892 'Crampton Thomas, shopkeeper & nail maker, Two gates' 'Mole Albert, Horse Shoe P.H. & blacksmith, Colley gate.'

Kelly's Directory 1896 'Mole Albert, Horse Shoe P.H. & blacksmith, Colley gate.'

Kelly's Directory 1900 Same as above.

Kelly's Directory 1904 'Crampton Ezra, Horse Shoe P.H. Colley gate'

Kelly's Directory 1908 ' Crampton Philip Henry, Horse Shoe P. H. Colley Gate'

No further trace of Ezra or Philip in Cradley, but in Kelly's Directory of 1936 and 1940 is 'Crampton Albt. greengro. Foxcote lane' Wonder if Albert is descended from Ezra or Philip, Foxcote Lane is just a bit further on towards Oldnall and Wollescote?

HTH from Linell.

What a fantastic chronology Linell! Thank you. I am encouraged by your findings. I was aware of the Moles being associated with the premises but I did not go back to mid 1800s. I now believe, taking into account the 1871 census revelation connecting the Horse Shoe to Bedcote Street; that Philip's pub is one of the same. It is also interesting, that the name of the premises remains consistently written as two words. No where else can I find premises where this is the case.

The fact the premises is also associated with a forge (as was every other building in the area), is nevertheless, important from my perspective ~ every little helps as they say.

If I cannot find anything on line, would the best place to chase for further information be Dudley or Stourbridge records?

Thanks to oscar also. I would like to think that the Ezra running the Waggon & Horses in 1824 in Old Hill, is an Ezra featuring somewhere along my trail.

Thanks again!

OldBill

Just looking through this post and noticed I had typed 1824 - sorry guys, I'm sure you realised, should have been 1924

Maggie

So did I.....whoops

The only Horse Shoe Pub on Tony's disc for the area is 99 Station Road (71 Waterfall Lane), Old Hill

Samuel Darby was the licensee in 1881

which record office would Old bill go to would it be Dudley?