missing birth record?

[Jimmy]

I can't see one that fits either.

[chaffinch]

Thanks Jimmy, that's definitely them on the 1871 Census at Warner St, Aston, and I can also find Alice on every census up to 1911. But why can't I find her birth record? (I think I found Mary Ann's, just need to buy the birth cert to be sure).

Hi Fiona, I have exactly the same problem with my grandfather and have had a wonderful lot of responses from this forum, but so far with no success except to confirm what I already know - this in itself is useful.
Have you found a Baptism - being Catholics that should be relatively easy to find, and might give you the exact birth date. We have reached the conclusion that either our birth was not registered or that my grandfather came from another family/workhouse/orphanage and was taken in by the family who "adopted" him.

[Fiona M]

Thank you chaffinch. I have not looked for a Baptism yet as I don't live in the Midlands myself, (I'm 'oop North' and still working full time). I will have more time to devote to 'hoof work' when I retire, but that will be a few years yet. I'm trying to do what I can online first.
I agree with you though, the response from forum members has been very kind and I am quite overwhelmed by it.

[Fiona M]

I've found this: Jun 1870, Maloney, Alice, Chippenham, 5a 61
Right date, wrong place. I wonder?

[Jimmy]

The closest I can see in the Birmingham area is,

Births Dec 1870.
MULLEN Alice. Birmingham. 6d. 74.

Do you know who John Maloney married, and when, if they married.

[Fiona M]

I have just ordered the marriage certificate for John Maloney & Mary Ann Bradburn, married Walsall Jun 1886. I think this is the correct one.
I have also ordered the birth cert for Alice's older sister, Mary Ann Maloney, b Sep 1866.
Will see if the names match up.
I've had to limit myself to two certs per month as it's getting expensive with all these subscriptions to census sites, genes reunited, ancestry uk and certs at £9 odd a throw!
Chippenham is an awful long way from Brum isn't it? I suppose I am just clutching at straws...

[Fiona M]

Update. Received in post today, one birth cert for Mary Ann Maloney 05/07/1866 (Alice's older sister). Mother's maiden name was Mary Ann Hatfield, not Bradburn. They lived at Kings Head Court, Digbeth.
From this info, I've now found the marriage record for John and Mary Ann, but he is recorded as Meloney instead of Maloney. I can now order the correct marriage cert, which may give me some clues, but as yet still unable to find the birth record for my GG Granny, Alice.
Onwards!

[Maths girl]

Just a thought -- has FreeBMD got the entire collection of births on for 1870-1871 -- the GRO sometimes have some missing as they didn't make it from the local to the national register office -- it might be worth contacting the local register office to see how much it is for them to do a search for say April 1870-71 especially as you now have prospective father and mother's maiden name -- presuming she has the same mother as Mary Ann --- she could of course be just "Female" Maloney if they registered her before they had decided on a name

other than that isn't 1870 before it became compulsory to register a baby -- My memory says that was 1874 -- maybe they just didn't get round to it!

[Fiona M]

Thanks MG, that has given me a bit more to think about. It may be that she was not yet named, or that they just didn't get around to registering her. They seem to have been quite simple people, mother was illiterate and made her mark X in the register for Mary Ann's birth, so perhaps they just didn't view a traipse to the register office as a priority.
By the way, does anyone know specifically what a Gun Sighter did? Was it a skilled job? I bought a book about the Birmingham gun trade which does not mention that role specifically, although it seems the parts for guns were all manaufactured separately in different workshops and assembled at the end of the process. I would love to know where John Maloney worked, but I don't suppose there will be any way of finding out.

[snoopysue]

I'd always assumed that an "X" meant that the person was illiterate but I read recently that this isn't always the case. If the registrar asked for the informant to "make their mark" some did literally just that. In some cases the person making their mark has left other documents which prove they could write.

[grangers14]

I've found this: Jun 1870, Maloney, Alice, Chippenham, 5a 61
Right date, wrong place. I wonder?

Doesnt look like the right one
from Wiltshire BMD
Wiltshire Birth indexes for the years: 1870

Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
MALONEY Alice - Chippenham History Centre - HULL - CHIP/18/120

[Fiona M]

Thanks grangers14

[Antie Em]

Thanks MG, that has given me a bit more to think about. It may be that she was not yet named, or that they just didn't get around to registering her. They seem to have been quite simple people, mother was illiterate and made her mark X in the register for Mary Ann's birth, so perhaps they just didn't view a traipse to the register office as a priority.
By the way, does anyone know specifically what a Gun Sighter did? Was it a skilled job? I bought a book about the Birmingham gun trade which does not mention that role specifically, although it seems the parts for guns were all manaufactured separately in different workshops and assembled at the end of the process. I would love to know where John Maloney worked, but I don't suppose there will be any way of finding out.

I think it was someone who checked that the sights were correctly positioned

Maggie

[Fiona M]

Righty ho. Received today one marriage cert for John Meloney and Mary Ann Hatfield, married at St Judes RC in Birmingham on 1st August 1864, both are recorded as being age 20. Mary Ann's mother is listed in the father column - Ann Hatfield. I assume this means Mary Ann was born illegitimate? John's father is listed as John Meloney (Deceased), which doesn't help me much either. Neither can I find a birth record for Mary Ann Hatfield.
Don't know where to look next, as I just keep coming up against searches which show no result.

[Jimmy]

This is a very long shot. very bad image.

Could this be Mary Ann Hatfield,

1851. Digbeth, Warwickshire.
Ann Hatfield 52. Widow.
John Hatfield 24. Son. Unm.
James Walfield 16.
Wm Walter 70.
Wallie Willis 13.
Margaret Askey 6. Grand dau. Birmingham. No birth record for a Margaret.
Susan Willis 3.
Thos Willis 2.

Births Mar 1844.
HASKEY Mary Ann. Aston. 16. 215.

Mary Ann Askey.
Baptism/Christening Date: 04 Feb 1845.
Baptism/Christening Place: SAINT MARTIN,BIRMINGHAM,WARWICK.
Father's Name: John Askey.
Mother's Name: Ann.
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C06300-1.
System Origin: England-ODM.
Source Film Number: 919775.

Marriages Sep 1851.
ASKEY John. Birmingham. 16. 432.
HATFIELD Ann. Birmingham. 16. 432.
Jenkins Elizabeth. Birmingham. 16. 432.
MAGEE Mary. Birmingham. 16. 432.
Nathan Samuel. Birmingham. 16. 432.
Simpson Mary Ann. Birmingham. 16. 432.
Thompson George. Birmingham. 16. 432.
WRIGHT Moses. Birmingham. 16. 432.