Genealogy Forum UK

grangers14 wrote:?? Looking for the family earlier census?

1851. Stone Street, West Bromwich
Thomas Keef, head, 32, Labourer,
Mary, wife, 34,
Margaret, daur, 11, West Bromwich
Ann, daur, 7, Dudley
Thomas, son, 3, Dudley
John, son, 1, Dudley
Mark Couly, lodger, 28, Labourer,
Mary, lodger, 23,
John, lodger, 8 months,
Jane Ward, lodger, 23, Brickmaker
Margaret Burke, lodger, 22, Brickmaker
All others born Ireland

Could this be the family in 1851?

I think it would help if we have the census and children added to BCC just make it clear whats what

I will try over the weekend to add but if you can say if that family looks right in 1851
Jo

Very many thanks, cloudyskies. I agree that we seem to have clashing information which could suggest two separate families. But I've been in touch with Keefe family members over the years who were convinced thet we had the same family and who had photos, documents etc. and information about Thomas the sprinter, the Keefe who died in the pit accident in Co Durham, the one who fell down the blowhole at the glass works etc., they were part of family lore handed down. So it's all becoming a bit of a mystery! Irish immigrants sometimes sought "protective coloration", as it were, by claiming in the censuses to have been born locally in England, I've come across this several times with other Irish Catholic families. There was sometimes a degree of prejudice against them, of course, so it's understandable. If we do have two different Keefe families, I wonder at which point they diverge. Could anybody out there advise?

I think it would be good to add to BCC and then we can see from there.

I have strated to add, not completed because Ive been tied up with Powells!

I think its worth if you have the marriage or ask for a look up of Thomas and Mary that looks very likely that Peter found
KEEFE Thomas DALY Mary 1841 West Bromwich Register Office West Midlands Sandwell Register Office WBRO/1/52

If either you have certificates it would be useful to have that info too.

Do either you have them or do they need looking up?

Jo

Yes, by all means add, please, grangers14, while we investigate. I haven't got the certificates, I'm afraid.

I will start adding other bits and we need look ups to confirm then.
It will make things more clear.
Jo

If the KEEFE family came over from Cork, it would have been when Thomas (b. 1870) was a teenager (hinted at by Martin in his memoirs). Therefore the family may not have been in England for the 1881 census (although John and Phoebe KEEFE whom I thought were Thomas' (b. 1870) parents are on both the 1871 and 1881 censuses for Park Street, Oldbury) and Thomas would have been in America for the 1891 census. I am sure that I have the correct census returns for Thomas (b. 1870) for 1901 and 1911- both of which stated that he was born in Oldbury. This must be due to the reasons stated by Dennis. I cannot find any record for Thomas (b. 1870) being born in Oldbury, but there are possible matches for his siblings.

So, I guess we need to prove that John KEEFE and Phoebe MATTHEWS are not the parents of Thomas (b. 1870). There are records of KEEFEs being born in Oldbury since 1841, so they could be another family?

Many thanks, cloudyskies, that seems to be where the split would come. I haven't a certificate for Thomas b. 1870, his parents on that would be the clincher.

I am moving it to Brickwalls just read some of it
that way you can all pick away at it

I have been adding children and census

This looks like its Thomas birth
West Midlands Birth indexes for the years: 1870
KEEF Thomas Oldbury Sandwell Register Office OLD/44/6

If you get that then you will be able to prove parents.

Jo

Is this still a Brickwall, or have you solved it?

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