Sandykt wrote:The Birth Certificate I have for my Grandfather states his Mother as being "Mary Ann Townsend formerly Sida".
The 1881Census for both Charles Townsend and Mary Ann Sida show them as living a few doors along so I'm assuming they were childhood sweethearts.
That would be right, there should be no mention on the birth cert of a former husband if she had one.
I have a birth cert from 1869 that states Mothers married name, then LATE - her pevious married name (she was widowed), then FORMERLEY her maiden name, Is this not usual practice?
It was the only clue I had that enabled me to find her in earlier censuses
I have found Mary Ann Sida in the 1881 Census (aged 14) b.1867 and living a few doors along from Charles Townsend b.1863. Therefore Sida is her maiden name. Are you saying she married Pipe, he died and THEN she married Charles Townsend?
Sandykt wrote:I have found Mary Ann Sida in the 1881 Census (aged 14) b.1867 and living a few doors along from Charles Townsend b.1863. Therefore Sida is her maiden name. Are you saying she married Pipe, he died and THEN she married Charles Townsend?
yes thats what were saying
thats why you cannot find a sida / townsend marriage
A person should have an opinion on everything, It becomes tact whether you reveal that opinion or not.
Just thought I would update everyone. Thank you all for helping. I ordered the three certificates, Mary Ann Sida marrying John Charles Pipe, the death of John Charles Pipe and then the marriage of Charles Townsend to Marry Ann Pipe. This is what I have found:
Mary Ann Sida (aged 22) spinster, married John Charles Pipe (widower) aged 27 on 25 Dec 1883. Mary's Father is stated to be Henry Sida.
John Charles Pipe died from smallpox on 6 Dec 1884.
Mary Ann Pipe, widow, married Charles Townsend aged 23 on 16 May 1886. Charles Townsend is stated to be Thomas (which I know is correct). Again, Mary Ann's Father is stated to be Henry Sida. However, I believe Henry was actually her brother and not her Father. What reason would her brother have been stated as her Father on the two certificates?
Also on BOTH marriage certificates, Mary Ann has stated her age 22. It is possible she may have got confused with the marriage in 1886 and stated her age when she married before?
Sandykt wrote:Mary Ann Pipe, widow, married Charles Townsend aged 23 on 16 May 1886. Charles Townsend is stated to be Thomas (which I know is correct). Again, Mary Ann's Father is stated to be Henry Sida. However, I believe Henry was actually her brother and not her Father. What reason would her brother have been stated as her Father on the two certificates?
Also on BOTH marriage certificates, Mary Ann has stated her age 22. It is possible she may have got confused with the marriage in 1886 and stated her age when she married before?
Given that Charles was only 23 when she married him did she want to appear younger than him -- in that time there was a feeling in some families that the man should be older than his wife (more experienced) --
Had she simply lied about her age? -- women still do it today
Sandykt wrote:. Again, Mary Ann's Father is stated to be Henry Sida. However, I believe Henry was actually her brother and not her Father. What reason would her brother have been stated as her Father on the two certificates?
Could her father's name have been officially Henry but he was known by another name all his life because his father's name was Henry and it saved confusion the generation before?
ie Mary Ann's Grandfather -- named Henry -called Henry Father -- named Henry - called ?? Borther -- named Henry - called Henry
I have found Mary Ann Sida in the 1881 Census and her father is stated as Charles. Her father is stated to be 55 years and Mary Ann 14 years. Henry, her brother, is 7 years older.
I have searched back through the Census and as Sida is not a very common name, I cannot find any Henry Sida with a daughter of Mary Ann.
1871 Eagle Street, West Ham SIDA, Charles Head M 47 1824 Essex Potato Dealer? SIDA, Ann Wife F 40 1831 Essex SIDA, Alice Daughter F 13 1858 Essex SIDA, Henry Son M 10 1861 Essex SIDA, Ann Daughter F 8 1863 Essex SIDA, Elza Daughter F 6 1865 Essex SIDA, Mary A Daughter F 3 1868 Essex SIDA, John Son M 1 1870 Essex
Maths girl wrote:1871 Eagle Street, West Ham SIDA, Charles Head M 47 1824 Essex Potato Dealer? SIDA, Ann Wife F 40 1831 Essex SIDA, Alice Daughter F 13 1858 Essex SIDA, Henry Son M 10 1861 Essex SIDA, Ann Daughter F 8 1863 Essex SIDA, Elza Daughter F 6 1865 Essex SIDA, Mary A Daughter F 3 1868 Essex SIDA, John Son M 1 1870 Essex
Possible marriage
Year of Registration: 1855 Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Ann Clark 1855 Rochford Essex Lydia Mott 1855 Rochford Essex George Pilbro 1855 Rochford Essex George Pilcher 1855 Rochford Essex Charles Sida 1855 Rochford Essex
In 1841 there appear to be two possible Henry Sida's --- Is Henry 1 the one you are looking for with MAry ann daughter in 1854 or Henry 2 with daughter Mary Ann 1865
Henry 1 1841 Curtis's Row, Barking, Ripple SIDA, Isaac M 48 1793 Essex Ag Lab SIDA, Mary F 36 1805 Essex SIDA, Edward M 19 1822 Essex SIDA, Charles M 16 1825 Essex SIDA, Henry M 13 1828 Essex SIDA, Mary F 10 1831 Essex
1851 Ship & Shovel, Barking, Ripple Ward BIXBY, Edward Head Married M 37 1814 Labourer Romford Essex BIXBY, Maria Wife Married F 28 1823 Labourers Wife Dagenham Essex BIXBY, Sarah Ann Daughter Unmarried F 5 1846 Scholar Barking Essex BIXBY, James Son M 3 1848 Dagenham Essex BIXBY, William Son M 0 (7 MOS) 1851 Barking Essex TURNER, Caroline Cousin Unmarried F 13 1838 House Servant Ilford Essex SIDA, Charles Lodger Unmarried M 24 1827 Labourer Dagenham Essex SIDA, Henry Lodger Unmarried M 22 1829 Labourer Grays Essex
1861 North Street, Barking FIDA, Henry Head Married M 38 1823 Labourer In... Grays Essex FIDA, Ann Wife Married F 30 1831 Barking Essex FIDA, Mary Ann Daughter F 7 1854 Scholar Grays Essex FIDA, Walter Son M 3 1858 Grays Essex FIDA, James Daughter F 0 (5M) 1861 Grays Essex FIDA, Mary Ann ... Widow F 52 1809 Laundress South Weald Essex
1871 North Street Ross Row, Barking SIDD, Henry Head M 42 1829 Essex Labourer born Grays SIDD, Ann Wife F 41 1830 Essex SIDD, Mary Ann Daughter F 19 1852 Essex Domestic Servant SIDD, Walter Son M 12 1859 Essex FActory Hand SIDD, Jane Daughter F 10 1861 Essex Factory Hand SIDD, Emily Daughter F 7 1864 Essex Scholar SIDD, Charles Son M 5 1866 Essex Scholar SIDD, Tibner Daughter F 3 1868 Essex Rest born Barking
This Henry dies 1874 Henry Sida Estimated birth year: abt 1828 Year of Registration: 1874 Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar Age at Death: 46 District: Romford County: Essex Volume: 4a Page: 101
Henry 2 1841 Ripple Side, Dagenham LIDA, Charles M 30 1811 Essex Ag Lab LIDA, Ann F 30 1811 Essex LIDA, Isaac M 7 1834 Essex LIDA, Emma F 5 1836 Essex LIDA, Edward M 3 1838 Essex LIDA, Henry M 1 1840 Essex LIDA, Mary F 8 1833 Essex
1851 Keys Street, Dagenham SIDA, Charles Head Married M 43 1808 Agricultural Labourer Cranham Essex SIDA, Ann Wife Married F 47 1804 Stifford Essex SIDA, Edward Son M 13 1838 Agricultural Labourer Dagenham Essex SIDA, Henry Son M 11 1840 Scholar Dagenham Essex SIDA, Eliza Daughter F 9 1842 Scholar Dagenham Essex SIDA, Frederick Son M 3 1848 Dagenham Essex
1861 28, Rathbone Street, Westham HILLIARD, Jacob Head Married M 56 1805 Dock Labourer ... Essex HILLIARD, Rachael Wife Married F 60 1801 Dagenham Essex HILLIARD, Rachael Daughter Unmarried F 21 1840 Dagenham Essex HILLIARD, William Son M 16 1845 Dock Labourer Dagenham Essex PERKINS, James Boarder Unmarried M 20 1841 Dock Labourer Romford Essex SIDA, Henry Boarder Unmarried M 22 1839 Dock Labourer Rainham Essex YOUNG, Thomas Boarder Unmarried M 21 1840 Dock Labourer Rainham Essex
1871 SIDER, Henry Head M 32 1839 Essex LAbourer Dagenham SIDER, Eliza Wife F 27 1844 Cambridgeshire Wisbech SIDER, Henry Ch Son M 8 1863 Essex Plaistow SIDER, Mary Ann Daughter F 6 1865 Essex Plaistow SIDER, Frederick W Son M 1 1870 Essex Plaistow
1881 22, Scott St, West Ham SIDD, Henry Head Married M 42 1839 Stevedore Dagenham Essex SIDD, Eliza Wife Married F 39 1842 Wisbeach Cambridgeshire SIDD, Eliza Daughter Single F 9 1872 Scholar Canning Town Essex SIDD, George Son Single M 6 1875 Scholar Canning Town Essex SIDD, Edmund Son Single M 4 1877 Scholar Canning Town Essex SIDD, Emma Daughter Single F 1 1880 Canning Town Essex
The one I am looking for is the 1871 Census where they seem to spell their name "Sider" and then it turns into "Sida". Talk about confusing!!
So when did Henry Sida (Sider) die? It must have been after 1886 as the Marriage Certificate for Mary Ann Sida marrying Charles Townsend did not say he was deceased.
I have found an entry for Mary Ann SIDER being born in West Ham in 1868
Sandykt wrote:The one I am looking for is the 1871 Census where they seem to spell their name "Sider" and then it turns into "Sida". Talk about confusing!!
So when did Henry Sida (Sider) die? It must have been after 1886 as the Marriage Certificate for Mary Ann Sida marrying Charles Townsend did not say he was deceased.
I have found an entry for Mary Ann SIDER being born in West Ham in 1868
This might be a possibility
Name: Henry Sida Estimated birth year: abt 1838 Year of Registration: 1888 Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec Age at Death: 50 District: Poplar (To 1965) County: Greater London, London, Middlesex Volume: 1c
