Page 2 of 3
Re: Mary Ann Billingham nee Gill
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:15 pm
by Northern Lass
Ok this is starting to come together a bit
Hannah Gill b abt 1802 bapt 1807
sister to Mary ann
1841 Census Holly Hall Dudley
Joseph Gill 59 coalminer
Susannah 58
Silas 35
Mary 17
Rebecca 3 mths
Re: Mary Ann Billingham nee Gill
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:25 pm
by Northern Lass
Now an ances tree has her married in 1880 to William Thomas but that year is out
but a Mary Ann Gill does marry in 1868
but how can that be ours if ours is the Mary ann with William Holt in 1861
and then as a Wid in 1871
1868
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
GILL Mary A THOMAS William Kingswinford, St Mary Dudley Register Office 213/004/293
or is our Mary only with Samuel Tromans in 1871
cos that Elisha is deffo a Gill!
so how does that work!!
not sure our Mary ann married in 1868 a William Thomas
Re: Mary Ann Billingham nee Gill
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:35 pm
by Northern Lass
If we asssume that the Mary in 1851 with William Holt is not our Mary Ann Bilingham / Tromans / Gill
then where is she in 1851
I dont think she is with William Holt until 1861
and how does he link to Susannah Holt
Re: Mary Ann Billingham nee Gill
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:24 pm
by Jimmy
Northern Lass wrote:why Holt
poss....
1841
GILL Emma S Dudley Dudley Register Office DUD/010/447
1861
GILL Elisha W Dudley Dudley Register Office DUD/083/320
Births Mar 1841.
Gill Emma Skeldon, Dudley. 18. 287.
Re: Mary Ann Billingham nee Gill
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:28 pm
by FarSide
[quote="
and our Mary that marries Samuel Tromans....is here...with Hannah Tilly next door
1871 census
Sheffield? Street, kingswinford
Mary A Billingham, head, W, 52
Joseph, Holt? son, 18, Coal miner, Kingswinford
Edward Holt?, son, 16
Thomas Holt, son, 14
Patience Holt, daur, 12
Elisha Holt, son, 10
All others born Dudley
The house previous has,
Hannah Gill, head, W, 69, Dudley
1881 Census
132 Congreaves Road, Rowley regis
Samuel Tromans, head, 55, Labourer, Cradley Heath
Mary A, wife, 58, Dudley
Prudence, daur, 16, Newtown
Samuel, son, 10, Newtown
Hannah Tilly, wifes sister, W, 80, Dudley
1891 Census
188 High Strett, Rowley regis
Samuel Troman, head, 65, general labourer, Rowley Regis
Mary Ann, wife, 67, Dudley
Samule, son, 20, Chain maker, Dudley
1901 Census
Cokelans Place, Rowley Regis,
Samuel Tromans, head, W, 75, retired on own means
Hannah, daur, 34, Chain Maker
Samuel, son, 30, Chain maker
All born Rowley Regis[/quote]
On the 1881 image, tho hard to read I think Hannah Tilley is actually a Gill.
Could someone have a look..
Class: RG11; Piece: 2862; Folio: 70; Page: 23; GSU roll: 1341686.
Re: Mary Ann Billingham nee Gill
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:39 pm
by Jimmy
1871 census
Sheffield? Street, kingswinford
Mary A Billingham, head, W, 52
Joseph, Holt? son, 18, Coal miner, Kingswinford
Edward Holt?, son, 16
Thomas Holt, son, 14
Patience Holt, daur, 12
Elisha Holt, son, 10
All others born Dudley
The house previous has,
Hannah Gill, head, W, 69, Dudley
1881 Census
132 Congreaves Road, Rowley regis
Samuel Tromans, head, 55, Labourer, Cradley Heath
Mary A, wife, 58, Dudley
Prudence, daur, 16, Newtown
Samuel, son, 10, Newtown
Hannah Tilly, wifes sister, W, 80, Dudley.
I think these are 2 different Mary's.
Re: Mary Ann Billingham nee Gill
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:57 pm
by Northern Lass
hmmm
Ok so if we go with that
then that throws Hannah Gill marrying Thomas Tilly back into the frame doesnt it?
but then we have that name Holt on that one in 1871 which links to
Joseph Gill wife Susannah and daus
hannah gill
and
Mary Gill
and that Elisha is an Elisha gill
I think they are the same
but I dunno
Re: Mary Ann Billingham nee Gill
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:01 pm
by Northern Lass
Just seen FS post
so if she is hannah Gill on 1881 that is great!
cos it kicks Hannah Tilly back out
cos I think the Tilly angle is wrong
so I think 1871 and 1881 are our mary ann
just ages bit wrong
good fun eh!
Re: Mary Ann Billingham nee Gill
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:22 pm
by Jimmy
Prudence, Tromans, daur, 16, in 1881.
I cannot see a birth for Prudence that fits.
Re: Mary Ann Billingham nee Gill
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:27 pm
by Northern Lass
Jimmy wrote:Prudence, Tromans, daur, 16, in 1881.
I cannot see a birth for Prudence that fits.
she is here with Samuel Tromans and wife Elizabeth living with isaac tromans Samuels father
1871
At 26 New Town
Isaac Tromons Head 67 Nail Maker b. New Town, Worcs.
Maria Tromons Wife 66 b. New Town, Worcs.
Mary Tromons Daur Unm. 41 Nail Maker b. New Town, Worcs. Deaf & Dumb
Samuel Tromons Boarder 45 Labourer b. New Town, Worcs.
Elizabeth Tromons Wife 42 b. New Town, Worcs.
John Tromons Son 16 Chain Maker b. New Town, Worcs.
James Tromons Son 14 Chain Maker b. New Town, Worcs.
Isaac Tromons Son 11 b. New Town, Worcs.
Prudence Tromons Daur 7 b. New Town, Worcs.Hannah Tromons Daur 5 b. New Town, Worcs.
Samuel Tromons Son 5 month b. New Town, Worcs.
Re: Mary Ann Billingham nee Gill
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:40 pm
by Northern Lass
1851 census
Locks Lane, Kingswinford
William Holt, head, 33, Coal Miner, Oldswinford
Mary, wife, 30, Holly Hall, Dudley
Emma, daur, 10, Holly Hall, Dudley
Elisha, son, 5, Kingswinford
William, son, 2, Kingswinford
Mary Ann, daur, 8 months, Kingswinford
John Hill, visitor, 1, ?, Holly Hall, Dudley
and look..I think now that it is the same mary our mary ann
so perhaps mary sidaway died earlier.....
this is mary anns mother
and John hill is there
more in min
1851 Low Town Dudley
Susanna Gill 65 w b Stourbridge or could be Slimbridge?
William Hill 25 son in law m coalminer b Dudley
Mariah Hill 25 dau m b Dudley
Susannah Hill 4 G.dau
William H Hill 21 G.son
John Hill 1 Mo G.son
1861 living with Richard Slater and dau Susannah in Dudley
Re: Mary Ann Billingham nee Gill
Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:37 am
by FarSide
Northern Lass wrote:why Holt
poss....
1841
GILL Emma S Dudley Dudley Register Office DUD/010/447
1861
GILL Elisha W Dudley Dudley Register Office DUD/083/320
Still working on it, found this...
Born Gill marries as Holt
1881
HOLT Elisha W TROMANS Sarah E H Dudley, St Thomas Dudley Register Office 204/036/466
Re: Mary Ann Billingham nee Gill
Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 7:28 am
by FarSide
Am I missing something
I don't understand why Hannah a Widow and wife's sister??
Wouldn't Hannah be Mary Sis in law and not sister
1881 Census
132 Congreaves Road, Rowley regis
Samuel Tromans, head, 55, Labourer, Cradley Heath
Mary A, wife, 58, Dudley
Prudence, daur, 16, Newtown
Samuel, son, 10, Newtown
Hannah Tilly, wifes sister, W, 80, Dudley
Re: Mary Ann Billingham nee Gill
Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:58 am
by Northern Lass
Maybe appearances?
Our Hannah works as that Hanah Gill dau of Joseph Gill and Susannah
sister of Mary Ann dau of Joseph Gill
so our Hannah cant be tht Tilly one as not in 2 places at once on 1871 and dob out and that Hannah Tilly was a Hannah Taylor
but I wondered how about the 1841 for this lot
1851 census
Locks Lane, Kingswinford
William Holt, head, 33, Coal Miner, Oldswinford
Mary, wife, 30, Holly Hall, Dudley
Emma, daur, 10, Holly Hall, Dudley
Elisha, son, 5, Kingswinford
William, son, 2, Kingswinford
Mary Ann, daur, 8 months, Kingswinford
John Hill, visitor, 1, ?, Holly Hall, Dudley
and that marriage for Elisha is interesting marries a tromans
can someone add that pls
Do we think we can add her name as Gill now and father Joseph Gill
what do we think?
good one this
Re: Mary Ann Billingham nee Gill
Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:56 am
by Jimmy
Northern Lass wrote:so we have...
1851 census
Locks Lane, Kingswinford
William Holt, head, 33, Coal Miner, Oldswinford
Mary, wife, 30, Holly Hall, Dudley
Emma, daur, 10, Holly Hall, Dudley
Elisha, son, 5, Kingswinford
William, son, 2, Kingswinford
Mary Ann, daur, 8 months, Kingswinford
John Hill, visitor, 1, ?, Holly Hall, Dudley
1861 Census
Simms? Lane, Dudley,
Maryann Holt, head, W, 36, Holly Hall dudley
Emma, daur, 20, Nailer, Holly Hall Dudley
Elisha, son, 16, Coal Miner, Holly Hall dudley
William, son, 13, Coal Miner, Brierly Hill
Maryann, daur, 11, Brierly Hill, Cripple
Joseph, son, 9, Brierly Hill
Thomas, son, 6, Holly Hall Dudley
Patience, daur, 4, Holly Hall Dudley
Elizabeth, daur, 21 months?, Holly Hall Dudley
Charles Howard, visitor, 40 , Dudley
1871 census
Sheffield? Street, kingswinford
Mary A Billingham, head, W, 52
Joseph, Holt? son, 18, Coal miner, Kingswinford
Edward Holt?, son, 16
Thomas Holt, son, 14
Patience Holt, daur, 12
Elisha Holt, daur, 10
All others born Dudley
The house previous has,
Hannah Gill, head, W, 69, Dudley
on the 1881 census in the same household of Tromans is
Thomas Holt, head, 26, Chain Maker, Dudley
Sophia, wife, 24, Cradley Heath
Alice, daur, 5, Cradley Heath
Elizabeth, 3, Cradley Heath
Mary Jan, daur, 1, Cradley Heath
marriage 1877 HOLT Thomas PITCHFORD Sophia Cradley Heath, St Luke Sandwell Register Office 20/1/366
1881 Census
132 Congreaves Road, Rowley regis
Samuel Tromans, head, 55, Labourer, Cradley Heath
Mary A, wife, 58, Dudley
Prudence, daur, 16, Newtown
Samuel, son, 10, Newtown
Hannah Tilly, wifes sister, W, 80, Dudley
Have you noticed that after 1851, Mary becomes Mary Ann in the other census's.
Or are there 2 William and Mary Holt's.
West Midlands Marriage 1853.
HOLT William, KIRKHAM Mary A. Kingswinford, St Mary. Dudley Register Office. 213/003/138.