Genealogy Forum UK

MarkCDodd wrote:January/February birth and a November/December birth would still allow full term babies.

While I agree with this on the various census they are always very different ages and separated by at least one other child - while they often couldn't remember how old the children were exactly they usually gave them in the right age order which is what made me query the dates

Hi folks, it's good to be be back! I've kept looking out for families I know, but this is the first for a while.

Mark and I have been in touch about these Murphys, the dates (and places) of birth are very confusing, but I think Mark has found the solution. They're connected to my family, the Woods of Oldbury, through the marriage of Patrick Murphy's daughter Hannah, also known as Annie b. abt March 1860 in Oldbury, to my great grandfather William Wood (1832-1898)'s son William (1863-bef. 1931) by his first wife Mary Ann Blott (1842-1863), wedding at St Francis Xavier's R C church, Oldbury, on 2 February 1891. William Wood jnr and Hannah had at least 7 children in Oldbury, Mary Ann 1892, Lucy 1895-1977, William Bernard 1897, Anna 1901, Thomas 1903, Joseph 1905 and John 1908. The other children of Patrick and Catherine Murphy I know about married as follows: Elizabeth to Thomas Nugent in 1879 and to John Duggan 2 July 1892 St Francis Xavier''s; and John Murphy to Catherine Whitehouse in 1892 W. Brom.

There is another Oldbury Murphy line I'm connected to, but whether it's linked to Patrick and Catherine's family I don't know: Charles Murphy 1844-1869 married Elizabeth Plant 1846-1896 on 28 April 1862 at Handsworth parish church. Elizabeth, my great grandmother, was the daughter of Warwick Plant 1816-1892. They had children Sarah Ann Murphy 3 Jun 1863 Oldbury, Selina 1866 and John 1868. The family on the census with Lily Rebecca Murphy (1892-1968) is this John's family. Would it help if I added some of this info (which I've acquired only over the past few weeks) on both lines to BCC?

Very interesting, Rob, about the Murphys you remember. I can see the old St Francis Xavier's so clearly in my mind's eye, ditto Penncricket etc. I never knew any Murphys because I went to Titford Road, Langley, rather than St Francis's.

Dennis wrote:Hi folks, it's good to be be back! I've kept looking out for families I know, but this is the first for a while.

Mark and I have been in touch about these Murphys, the dates (and places) of birth are very confusing, but I think Mark has found the solution. They're connected to my family, the Woods of Oldbury, through the marriage of Patrick Murphy's daughter Hannah, also known as Annie b. abt March 1860 in Oldbury, to my great grandfather William Wood (1832-1898)'s son William (1863-bef. 1931) by his first wife Mary Ann Blott (1842-1863), wedding at St Francis Xavier's R C church, Oldbury, on 2 February 1891. William Wood jnr and Hannah had at least 7 children in Oldbury, Mary Ann 1892, Lucy 1895-1977, William Bernard 1897, Anna 1901, Thomas 1903, Joseph 1905 and John 1908. The other children of Patrick and Catherine Murphy I know about married as follows: Elizabeth to Thomas Nugent in 1879 and to John Duggan 2 July 1892 St Francis Xavier''s; and John Murphy to Catherine Whitehouse in 1892 W. Brom.

There is another Oldbury Murphy line I'm connected to, but whether it's linked to Patrick and Catherine's family I don't know: Charles Murphy 1844-1869 married Elizabeth Plant 1846-1896 on 28 April 1862 at Handsworth parish church. Elizabeth, my great grandmother, was the daughter of Warwick Plant 1816-1892. They had children Sarah Ann Murphy 3 Jun 1863 Oldbury, Selina 1866 and John 1868. The family on the census with Lily Rebecca Murphy (1892-1968) is this John's family. Would it help if I added some of this info (which I've acquired only over the past few weeks) on both lines to BCC?

Very interesting, Rob, about the Murphys you remember. I can see the old St Francis Xavier's so clearly in my mind's eye, ditto Penncricket etc. I never knew any Murphys because I went to Titford Road, Langley, rather than St Francis's.

Hi Dennis welcome back
xx

yes please add what ever you wish to BCC
and thank you

I've added the two Murphy lines to BCC, NL. Many thanks to Mark for the information about his ancestors!

Nice one Dennis and I agree, it's good to have you back

Check your age for Annie/Hannah.

There is no Ann, Annie or Hannah Murphy born in Oldbury in 1860.

She does not appear on the 1861 census.

Expanding the search to the whole of Staffordshire/Worcestershire/Warwickshire the closest match is an Ann Murphy registered 4th Quarter in 1861 in

Wolverhampton or a Hannah Murphy registered 2nd quarter 1858 in Birmingham.

The Hannah Murphy I have is registered 1st quarter 1869 in West Brom which includes Oldbury.

The 1871, 1881, 1901 and 1911 Census all support the 1869 birth.

I think you got the marriage information from the Parish records and it didn't have their ages?

If you have the marriage certificate, what age is listed for Hannah?

You have her death listed as 1935 in Smethwick but I could not find a matching record.

If you have that, what age is given?

Catharine Murphy place of birth 1891 census has me stumped.

Ancestry (who have the worst transcribers in the world) have her place of birth as Bathrum, Warwickshire, England.

Others have it as Rathven, Wicklow?

Looking at it, I think it is an Irish County and Parish but can't guess what it is.

The address is 5 2 Court Low Town, Oldbury and her sons Michael and John are with her.

John is my GG Grandad and he married a Charlotte Waterhouse in 1892. (Hopefully the certificate arrives tomorrow...).

John and several of his uncles were boat builders.

I assume that would have been Canal Boats?

Was there and established boat industry in West Brom?

I think it is Rathdrum, which is a town in the County of Wicklow.

I just downloaded the image from Find My Ancestors and it is far better quality than the one on Ancestry.

Definately Rathdrum In Wicklow.

Has anybody got access to the Parish records?

Oops! Yes, of course it's 1st Qu. 1869 for Hannah / Annie, Mark, sorry about that. This what I have on my PC:

WILLIAM WOOD was born 09 Mar 1863 in Greets Green?, Staffordshire, and died Bef. 1931 in Oldbury, Worcestershire. He married HANNAH MURPHY 02 Feb 1891 in St Francis Xavier R C church, Oldbury, Worcs, daughter of PATRICK MURPHY and CATHARINE UNKNOWN. She was born Abt. Mar 1869 in Oldbury, Worcestershire, and died Abt. 1935 in 334 Spon Lane, Smethwick.

In 1911 William and his family were living at No 1 Rounds Fold, Park Lane, Oldbury and he was a "Glass Shade Worker". On Thomas's 1931 marriage certificate William was entered as "glassblower, deceased".

Marriage Notes for WILLIAM WOOD and HANNAH MURPHY:
Married by Father John Kelly. Witnesses: Michael Murphy and Lucy Wood.

Children of WILLIAM WOOD and HANNAH MURPHY are:
i. MARY ANN6 WOOD, b. 1892.

Notes for MARY ANN WOOD:
Baptized at St Francis Xavier R C church, Oldbury on October 28, 1892, sponsor: Lucy Wood.

ii. HANNAH WOOD, b. Abt. 1895, Oldbury, Worcestershire.
2. iii. LUCY WOOD, b. 1895, Oldbury, Worcestershire; d. 1977, Biggs Hill Road, Kings Norton.
3. iv. WILLIAM BERNARD WOOD, b. 1897, Oldbury, Worcestershire; d. Aft. 1911.
4. v. ANNA WOOD, b. 09 Feb 1901, Oldbury, Worcestershire; d. Aft. 1911.
5. vi. THOMAS WOOD, b. 30 Nov 1903, 8 Rounds Fold, Seven Stars Road, Oldbury, Worcs; d. Abt. 1963, Belbroughton, Worcestershire.
6. vii. JOSEPH WOOD, b. 1905
7. viii. JOHN WOOD, b. Nov 1908, Oldbury, Worcestershire; d. 1953, Oldbury, Worcestershire.

Excellent to have found the Rathdrum wedding! Yes they were canal boat builders, Oldbury was a big canal town at that time.

Doh! Rathdrum birth, I mean. But it's not impossible that the couple met / were married there, it's 40 miles south of Dublin. According to the family tradition I heard from a living descendant, the Murphy family crossed from Dublin and walked barefoot across Wales to settle in Oldbury. The glass and chemical works in Oldbury offered work to many unskilled labourers, although shovelling powerful chemicals could mean ruined health... Interesting that these Murphys were canal boat builders, a safer option. There was a boat builder at Valencia Wharf, Oldbury, I think it belonged to Joseph Holloway. Later Les Allen built boats in Oldbury. (Oldbury once had an old canal arm that passed right through the middle of the town, under Birmingham Street, it was filled in c. 1970.) The nationally famous canal carriers based there were Thomas Clayton and T & S Element, I remember the Elements' yard.

Just read an article published in July that says Joseph Holloway Ltd is in trouble for trying to fill in the canal area that Les Allen used to operate from.

In the early 70's I remember taking Grandma Ford's spoilt little Corgi for a walk near one of the unused parts of the Canal system. The water had this green covering that made it look like mown grass.

The stupid Corgi thought so and walked straight into the canal and proceeded to sink.

I couldn't see the thing but looked for some bubbles and lept in where I thought it was.

Landed on the silly thing and managed to grab it and stagger back onto the pavement.

We both stank something horrible and Gran spent a hour scrubbing us both clean.

MarkCDodd wrote:Just read an article published in July that says Joseph Holloway Ltd is in trouble for trying to fill in the canal area that Les Allen used to operate from.

In the early 70's I remember taking Grandma Ford's spoilt little Corgi for a walk near one of the unused parts of the Canal system. The water had this green covering that made it look like mown grass.

The stupid Corgi thought so and walked straight into the canal and proceeded to sink.

I couldn't see the thing but looked for some bubbles and lept in where I thought it was.

Landed on the silly thing and managed to grab it and stagger back onto the pavement.

We both stank something horrible and Gran spent a hour scrubbing us both clean.

that is a great story Mark

Hi folks flagging this to archive it now if we are done with it?
any more info needed?

Mark pm me if you are interested in joining the Black Country Connections to add your ancestors too


So unless otherwise advised this will be moved to archived section within 24 hrs