Help with great great great grandparents

[Northern Lass]

Thanks will start to add....but do I add this total family as a new family?...ie is this Joseph that marries Rhoda
the Joseph Whitehouse Guest...or is he just another Joseph Guest.

what do you think?

cos I might have added in this thomas and Mary to this Joseph that marries Rhoda and it is wrong
If you get what I mean

[gardener]

Thanks will start to add....but do I add this total family as a new family?...ie is this Joseph that marries Rhoda
the Joseph Whitehouse Guest...or is he just another Joseph Guest.

what do you think?

cos I might have added in this thomas and Mary to this Joseph that marries Rhoda and it is wrong
If you get what I mean

I think these can be added, and yes I think it is the same James as married Rhoda. What I don't understand is why they ended named on a gravestone at Ebbw Vale.
I think you could add these and see if the OP comes back with anything.


Father: Thomas Guest died 15 Sep 1824*
Mother: Mary (Whitehouse) died 3 Aug 1866*

------------

Joseph Whitehouse GUEST Baptism 8 Jul 1804 Worcestershire Dudley : St Thomas
Died 3 Apr 1805

Joseph Whitehouse GUEST Baptism 28 Sep 1806 Worcestershire St Thomas

John Guest Baptism Date: 12 Feb 1809 Saint Thomas,Dudley,Worcester,England
Died 6 Oct 1823* see below too

Zephania Guest Bapt. 16 June 1811 St Thomas, Dudley
Died 5 Feb 1847
Married Ann Griffin 26 Sep 1836


Mary Whitehouse Guest Baptism 18 Apr 1813 St Thomas Dudley
Married James Griffin 16 Apr 1835


Isaac Guest Baptism Date: 6 Nov 1814 Saint Thomas,Dudley,Worcester,England
Died 10 Jan 1845*

[kdwoodie]

The original poster put this

I’ve found the death certificate of Mary Guest showing she died on 3 August 1866 at the residence of her eldest son Thomas aged 93.
The census of 1851 & 1861 show her ages at 77 & 87 so consistent with her death age giving a possible birth mid 1773. Census gives birth as Gornal & Sedgley.

i found the census for 1861

1861 Dudley Road Sedgley
Thomas Guers[Guest] Head Mar 63 Proprietor of Houses Born Dudley
Elizabeth C Guers Wife Mar 61 Born Tipton
Mary Guers Mother W 87 Born Sedgley
William Griffin Nephew Un 19 Born Dudley
Mary Sonke [Mary Tonks] Servant Un 26 House Servant Born Dudley

There is no baptism for Thomas Guest with parents Thomas and Mary

[gardener]

I’ve found the death certificate of Mary Guest showing she died on 3 August 1866 at the residence of her eldest son Thomas aged 93.
The census of 1851 & 1861 show her ages at 77 & 87 so consistent with her death age giving a possible birth mid 1773. Census gives birth as Gornal & Sedgley.

i found the census for 1861

1861 Dudley Road Sedgley
Thomas Guers[Guest] Head Mar 63 Proprietor of Houses Born Dudley
Elizabeth C Guers Wife Mar 61 Born Tipton
Mary Guers Mother W 87 Born Sedgley
William Griffin Nephew Un 19 Born Dudley
Mary Sonke [Mary Tonks] Servant Un 26 House Servant Born Dudley

There is no baptism for Thomas Guest with parents Thomas and Mary

Yes, sorry, I forgot him

Parent wedding is this one, which fits with Thomas being their first child

Name: Mary Whitehouse
Marriage Date: 13 Sep 1796
Marriage Place: Harborne, St Peter, England
Spouse: Thomas Guest

Thomas junior married Elizabeth (1861 census) quite late

Name: Thomas Guest
Registration Year: 1857
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Volume: 6c
Page: 670
Records on Page:
Name
Elizabeth Parker Baylies
Thomas Guest

and I think this is her in 1851, with Thomas living next door perhaps

1851
Victoria Terrace, Dudley

Household Schedule Number: 119
Piece: 2032
Folio: 456
Page Number: 32

Elizabeth Baylis 50 widow? landed proprietor Tipton



Household Schedule Number: 118
Piece: 2032
Folio: 456
Page Number: 32

Thomas Guest 53 retired grocer Dudley
Sarah Guest 46 wife
Ann ? 27 servant

So I think this is Thomas in 1841 (in earlier post but I was not sure he was the same family)

1841
High Street, Dudley
Piece: 1196
Book: 6
Folio: 9
Page Number: 11
Thomas Guest 40 grocer Y
Sarah ditto 35 Y
Francis ditto 15 app N
Charles Mills 15 app N


And probably this marriage off Freereg

Church name (Links to more information) St Thomas
Register entry number 769
Marriage date 16 Sep 1828
Groom forename Thomas
Groom surname GUEST
Groom parish Dudley
Groom condition bachelor
Bride forename Sarah
Bride surname COLLINS
Bride parish Dudley
Bride condition widow
Witness1 A NARNEY
Witness2 Richard NARNEY
Notes Witness (3) M.GUEST. By Licence Groom Bride & witnesses signed

Frances Guest in the 1841 seems to be son of Francis Guest and Jane (Griffin)

Anyhow, still can't find baptism for Thomas

[gardener]

Francis and Jane seem to have had a son William too

Bapt 23 July 1822, born 26 May, William
father: Francis Palmer Guest, surgeon, Dudley
mother: Jane Griffin

MArriage
Name: Francis Geast
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 24 Jul 1821
Marriage Place: Aston, St Peter and St Paul, Warwickshire, England
Spouse: Jane Griffin

but this is his baptism, and it does not seem to fit in at all

Name: Francis Palmer Guest
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 5 Feb 1793
Baptism Place: Broom, Stafford, England
Father:
Francis Guest
Mother:
Mary
FHL Film Number: 328827

[gardener]

This is probably Thomas on Freereg

Place (Links to more information) Dudley
Church name (Links to more information) St Thomas
Baptism date 30 Jul 1797
Person forename Thomas
Person sex M
Father forename Thomas
Mother forename Mary
Father surname GEAST

[Northern Lass]

Just going thru this

so where is that Ebbw valley info from?

so did they die there and were moved to Dudley?...or just the headstones?

[gardener]

Just going thru this

so where is that Ebbw valley info from?

so did they die there and were moved to Dudley?...or just the headstones?

It is from Ancestry, a list of gravestones that were moved from a boggy Ebbw Vale cemetery. I wondered if someone erected it there, intending to settle in the area and then moved?

There were Guests baptised etc at Blaina which is the next valley over, but I can't make out how they connect in. Sorry

[Tonyg]

Sorry. Been away for a while & not seen recent posts.

Children of Thomas Guest & Mary - all born at St Thomas, Dudley were:

Thomas 30 Jul 1797 15 Aug 1873
Sarah 2 Sep 1798 ????
Seana 25 Nov 1798 26 Aug 1880
Senea 1 Feb 1801 16 Aug 1801
Margarett 7 Feb 1802 18 Nov 1803
Priscilla 14 Aug 1803 12 Nov 1858
Joseph Whitehouse 8 July 1804 3 April 1805
Joseph Whitehouse 28 Sep 1806 1 Oct 1876
Isaac 1 Nov 1807 23 Mar 1812
John 12 Feb 1809 11 Oct 1823
Zephaniah 16 Jun 1811 6 Feb 1847
Mary Whitehouse 18 April 1813 19 Jun 1856
Isaac. 6 Nov 1814 16 Jan 1845

1. I can’t find any details for Sarah.
2. Seana’s baptism only 2 months after Sarah
3. Seana & Senea both verified at Dudley Archives.
4. Mary Guest death certificate 1866 attached.

[Tonyg]

Having read through recent posts the information on the tombstones is fantastic.

It confirms my GGG grandfather Thomas Guest died age 60 in 1824 as per FREEREG. He was therefore born 1763/64. There was a Thomas born Dudley 23 Oct 1763. This could be him.

I’ve seen references to Ebbw Vale. There is no connection. My GG grandfather Joseph Whitehouse Guest (1806) married Rhoda Woodall in 1829. All their children were born in Dudley & both Joseph & Rhoda died in Dudley.

Marriage of Thomas Guest to Mary Whitehouse in 1796 seems perfect but the marriage was in Harborne.

[gardener]

It was quite common for people from the Rowley Regis area to get married in Birmingham I think, and that is a similar distance. Sometimes it was to avoid tricky questions from a vicar who knew them but other times it just seems to have been a "choice".

[Tonyg]

It was quite common for people from the Rowley Regis area to get married in Birmingham I think, and that is a similar distance. Sometimes it was to avoid tricky questions from a vicar who knew them but other times it just seems to have been a "choice".

It's the most logical explanation although the notes on Freereg say both were OTP.

[Tonyg]

Thanks to everyone who's replied. It's filled a few gaps and corroborated most of my research.

To summarise from all the posts:

1. I'm 99.9% certain that GGG grandmothers Mary was born Whitehouse. Age at death and at census of 1851 & 1861 are consistent which indicates birth Apr-Jul 1773. Only one Mary Whitehouse in that period in Staffs/Worcs/Warks baptised at St Thomas Dudley, only a stones throw from place of birth Gornal. Parents were Joseph & Mary. 2 of Thomas & Mary's children were given Whitehouse as second name, Joseph & Mary, surely not just coincidence.
2. Thomas Guest probably the one baptised 23 Oct 1763 at St Thomas, Dudley.
3. Quite a few instances of Geast used in late 1700 early 1800.
4. No trail at all for Sarah born 1798 & conflicting baptism of Seana less than 3 months apart. As said earlier I've visited Dudley Archive and seen baptism of Sarah, Seana & Senea in register so it's not a transcription error.

[gardener]

It was quite common for people from the Rowley Regis area to get married in Birmingham I think, and that is a similar distance. Sometimes it was to avoid tricky questions from a vicar who knew them but other times it just seems to have been a "choice".

It's the most logical explanation although the notes on Freereg say both were OTP.

It was quite normal to claim OTP because it saved money. Frequently one person "moved" to an address in the parish where the wedding would take place, but I'm sure I have seen cases where both claimed OTP even though they clearly resided elsewhere

[Northern Lass]

Tonyg if you would like your username added to Joseph Whitehouse guest on Bcc let me know and
I can ask the owner of Bcc if that is ok.
Then if anyone connects to that line they can contact you via this forum.