ARC TBC - Nurse Child in Manchester

[MarkCDodd]

Might be more info with the Society Of Genealogists....

Civil Service Evidence of Age 1752-1948
First name(s): John
Last name: BURNS
Date of birth: 4 Jul 1885
Place of birth: West Derby
County of birth: Lancashire
Country of birth: England
Type of record: Birth
Notes: also known as: Kenny, Dan
Reference: Z 185541 199/2

Civil Service Evidence of Age 1752-1948
First name(s): John
Last name: BURNS
Date of birth: 8 Nov 1896
Place of birth: Cork
County of birth: Cork
Country of birth: Ireland
Type of record: Birth
Notes:
Reference: Y 30546 179

Civil Service Evidence of Age 1752-1948
First name(s): John
Last name: BURNS
Date of birth: 2 May 1879
Place of birth: Ballybay
County of birth: Monaghan
Country of birth: Ireland
Type of record: Birth
Notes:
Reference: F 35267 149

[MarkCDodd]

The John Burns in this census is actually a Post Office Boy.....

1901 census transcription details for: 89, Denmark Road, South Manchester


National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG13
Piece: 3698
Folio: 6
Page: 4
Reg. District: Chorlton
Sub District: Chorlton upon Medlock
Parish: South Manchester
Enum. District: 41
Ecclesiastical District: Moss Side Christ Church
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 89, Denmark Road, South Manchester
County: Lancashire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
BURNS, William A Head Married M 52 1849 Carver Birmingham, Warwickshire
BURNS, Annie Wife Married F 50 1851 Liverpool
BURNS, John Son Single M 14 1887 Office Boy Manchester, Lancashire
MARSHALL, Rose Boarder Single F 28 1873 Domestic Birmingham
WALKER, Elizabeth Boarder Single F 21 1880 Own Means Scotland Paisley
HOLBROOK, William D Boarder Widower M 62 1839 Agent Cliffton, Gloucestershire

[Mrdonovan]

Oh wow. That does sound like a very likely candidate.
http://i.imgur.com/Qgw6R.jpg
That's close....

The Sarah Burns who died in Manchester in 1910, was very close in age as him, b: abt 1883, but wouldn't it be more likely if it was the right Sarah, that she was listed as deceased in Chorlton?

Also, can that John Burns be traced back in time? I've found one who could be the same, but in 1891 he's called "John Jos"

[Antie Em]

Hiya

Don't get hung up on people dying where they were born or where they lived. She might have been taken to a specialist hospital, or been on a visit. My Gr Grandfather was born in Clent and lived in Oldbury, but died in South Wales. Another relative lived in the Midlands but died whilst holidaying in Cornwall. It's always best to get a copy of a death certificate, which hopefully will give you their "usual" abode.

[Mrdonovan]

Expensive way to do research though. :S
Spending money to maybe just rule someone out. Would love to know what that death certificate said though.

[Antie Em]

It is expensive, but sometimes it's the only way to go. I started my researching about 15 years ago, when there was hardly anything on the internet, and the only way to find people was to actually sit in the archives and go through the GRO records on fiche. It is a lot easier now, but the only "sure" way sometimes is to buy a certificate. You can always use criteria when you apply for a certificate, husband's name, where they were living, anything you think might be contained in the details. I have a lever arch file full of certificates, I would never want to add up how much I have spent, it would scare me to death. I only have a few which turned out not to be the right person.

[snoopysue]

It is expensive, but sometimes it's the only way to go. I started my researching about 15 years ago, when there was hardly anything on the internet, and the only way to find people was to actually sit in the archives and go through the GRO records on fiche. It is a lot easier now, but the only "sure" way sometimes is to buy a certificate. You can always use criteria when you apply for a certificate, husband's name, where they were living, anything you think might be contained in the details. I have a lever arch file full of certificates, I would never want to add up how much I have spent, it would scare me to death. I only have a few which turned out not to be the right person.

Like Antie Em, I have files of certificates. Dread to think of the cost
It is always disappointing when the certificate that arrives is the wrong one - but it does help rule things out, and get closer to the truth. I recently sent of for a death cert, the one that came back turned out to be a grandchild of the woman I was after - she sadly died aged five days - I'd have never known of her existence otherwise.
Rather than use the GRO info when you order (you know with volume and page number), add what you know - so parents names, occupations, addresses. In case of deaths, under occupation put wife of...; widow of ...; daughter of..... It takes a bit longer, but they refund your money if they can't find a match.

[Mrdonovan]

I may consider it. Seems to be the be the only candidate I have at this point to help fill in the mystery that is Sarah Gamble.

I've been thinking, I have a hard time finding Sarah Gambles in the UK censuses, and S.A. seems to be a more popular name in Ireland. Could she be Irish, and have been married there, then moved to Chorlton? Are there any good ways and places to look up on this option properly?

[Northern Lass]

1860
GAMBLE Sarah Jessie Chorlton-on-Medlock Manchester CHO/56/38

who did your Mary P Burns marry?
do you have the certif? is father deceased on it

[Northern Lass]

just posting these not sure if connected
but on Bmd there is a Clarice Burn mothers name Gamble b 1914 Blackburn

poss
Deaths Mar 1914
Burns Sarah J 39 Chorlton 8c 1065


Marriages Sep 1897
Gamble Sarah Jessie Kendal 10b 1134
Knowles Henry Kendal 10b 1134
Penn Robert Stanley Kendal 10b 1134
Robinson Isabella Kendal 10b 1134

1911 Blackburn Lancs
Sarah Burns wife 36 married 15 years children none cotton weaver birthplace Kendal
114 Haslingdon Rd Blackburn


on that birth certif you have does mother sign?

no husband with her

[Mrdonovan]

Informant: Sarah Burns, 294 Oxford Road, South Manchester
Registered 24th of March 1909
No husband with her

Mary Patricia Burns married John Greenwood in South Manchester in 1928
I don't have much on him either really, I know he died in Manchester in 1967 aged 62, so born year abt. 1905. unknown birth place

I don't have the marriage certificate, but given Mary Patricia never knew who her real parents were, wouldn't it be odd if the real parents showed up on the Marriage Certificate for them?

[Northern Lass]

Do you know for sure that she didn't know who her parents were ie their names?

I meant re her signing did you have the actual signature or is it a copied certif?
some are photocopied directly from the register and so you get the actual signature from the
infomant.
Might be useful if a marriage is found to compare sigs

[Northern Lass]

wonder why there are 2 names on ukbmd


1928
BURNS * Mary Patricia DEAKIN John Chorlton-on-Medlock Register Office or Registar Attended Manchester CHO_RM/349/61
BURNS * Mary Patricia GREENWOOD John Chorlton-on-Medlock Register Office or Registar Attended Manchester CHO_RM/349/61

[Mrdonovan]

It's just a copy, and no signature from informant.

I'm pretty sure she didn't know who her parents were. But no, I'm not 100% certain.

I don't know what the Deakin name is about either, but Greenwood was the name they passed on to next generation.

[Jimmy]

Marriages Jun 1928
BURNS Mary P. DEAKIN Manchester S. 8d 405.
transcribed by:
JNAYLOR, #COMMENT Entry reads DEAKIN or GREENWOOD for spouse surname.