*Archive?* but still need help.....William Smart b abt 1852

[linell]

Think this is Wm Snr in 1851:-

SMART, William Lodger Unmarried M 29 1822 Rail Labourer
Langtoft
Lincolnshire

Linell.

[linell]

Baptism's for children of Thomas Roberts and Eleano:-

10. JANE ROBERTS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 02 AUG 1835 Langtoft, Lincoln, England

11. SHILLENER ROBERTS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 10 OCT 1830 Langtoft, Lincoln, England

12. CHARLOTTE ROBERTS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 17 FEB 1833 Langtoft, Lincoln, England

13. LOUISA ROBERTS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 19 AUG 1828 Langtoft, Lincoln, England

George Roberts 23.1.1842

Linell

[linell]

Possible Marriage

Marriages Mar 1855 (>99%)

GILBERT William Bourn 7a 353
GREEN Mary Ann Bourn 7a 353
HITCH Mary Ann Bourn 7a 353
SMART William Bourn 7a 353

Linell.

[linell]

Looks like Mary Hitch's parents were Edward Hitch and Sarah (Rowett) could be Robert

Linell.

[linell]

Another possible for Wm Smart in 1851, address is West Deeping Lincs:-

NIDD, John Head Married M 51 1800 Publican
Gedney
Lincolnshire
NIDD, Jane Wife Married F 57 1794
Tallington
Lincolnshire
SMART, William Nephew Unmarried M 29 1822 Ag Lab
Edenham
Lincolnshire
BLAND, John Lodger W M 65 1786 Ag Lab
Elton
Northamptonshire
HOLDICH, Mathew Lodger Married M 56 1795 Ag Lab
Tallington
Lincolnshire
LITTLE, George Lodger Unmarried M 55 1796 Miller Journeyman
Eye
Northamptonshire

[Northern Lass]

Father of Mary Ann HItch is a Robert

Mary Ann Hitch
Parents:
Father: Robert Hitch
Marriages:
Spouse: William Smart
Marriage: 01 MAR 1855 Bourne, Lincoln, Extracted marriage

[Northern Lass]

Just wondering about this one

on the 1841 at Langtoft is a Wm Smart 52 Ag Lab and wife Elizabeth 60
next door is a William Robinson
can someone post the census pls

WILLIAM SMART Christening: 20 NOV 1819 Barholm, Lincoln, England

Parents:
Father: WILLIAM SMART Mother: ELIZABETH Extracted birth

[Northern Lass]

1851 Langtoft Lincs
William Smart h m 61 farm lab b Barholm lincs
Elizabeth Smart wife b Rutland (cant read county)
Elizabeth Bowman Gd dau 12 b Lincs Deeping

WILLIAM SMART
Marriages:
Spouse: ELIZABETH BOWMAN
Marriage: 01 APR 1819 Barholm With Stowe, Lincoln, Extracted marriage

[Northern Lass]

Another possible for Wm Smart in 1851, address is West Deeping Lincs:-

NIDD, John Head Married M 51 1800 Publican
Gedney
Lincolnshire
NIDD, Jane Wife Married F 57 1794
Tallington
Lincolnshire
SMART, William Nephew Unmarried M 29 1822 Ag Lab
Edenham
Lincolnshire
BLAND, John Lodger W M 65 1786 Ag Lab
Elton
Northamptonshire
HOLDICH, Mathew Lodger Married M 56 1795 Ag Lab
Tallington
Lincolnshire
LITTLE, George Lodger Unmarried M 55 1796 Miller Journeyman
Eye
Northamptonshire

how is he connected to the Nidds?

John Nidd I think marries a Jane Sutton

so can anyone work it out?

[Northern Lass]

I think that one above is b abt 1829 and is on the 1841 with parents James and Catherine (Watson)
so dont think it is ours

there is a bapt 1829 edenham that fits that one

[mallosa]

Just wondering about this one

on the 1841 at Langtoft is a Wm Smart 52 Ag Lab and wife Elizabeth 60
next door is a William Robinson
can someone post the census pls

WILLIAM SMART Christening: 20 NOV 1819 Barholm, Lincoln, England

Parents:
Father: WILLIAM SMART Mother: ELIZABETH Extracted birth

1841: Langtoft, Lincolnshire
William Robinson 25 Ag Lab
Ann Robinson 25
Joseph Robinson 6
George Robinson 3
Elizabeth Robinson 1
Joseph Robinson 60 Ag Lab
Elizabeth Andrew 70 Pauper (n)
(others born in county)

[gardener]

Ok now I have an update to this

Gardener hope you are looking in on this one......

Just to recap
William Rose b abt 1852/3 "son" of Samuel Rose b 1828
-no birth certif at all and it has been bottomed that one.....yet other kids of Samuel and Mary Ann Rose have birth certif
-no bapt yet Spencer Rose and Harriet Rose are bapt at Graingers lane
-not on 1861 census....but on 1871 (not on 1881) and then on 1891 and 1901 (not looked for 1911 )

BUT next door to Samuel Rose and wife Mary Ann is a family of Smarts from Lincs
Wm Smart father
Selina mother (formerly Roberts)
Wm smart aged 8 born Deeping Lincs
Joseph smart aged 1

I think this is my William Rose taken in by the Rose family.

Hi NL
I am indeed keeping an eye on this!
I'm sorry but it just does not make sense to me.

1. Samuel Rose married Mary Ann Dodson in June 1851 so if you toss William out as a son then their first kid was born in 1857 which is a big gap. After that they popped them out every two years so no obvious fertility problems.

2. As far as I recall William Rose gives his birth place in 71, 91 and 01 as Cradley Heath. If he was taken in by Samuel after the age of 8 he would surely know where he came from?

3. If he was taken in after the age of 8 then I don't understand why he would be listed as Samuel's son in 1871 - he was wasn't he? I don't have my notes handy.

4. When William married he stated his father as Samuel Rose. If adopted after the age of 8 he would have known who his father was.

I just don't believe it but feel free to think what you will - it is a free world
I find it easier to believe that his birth was not registered and he was either away or forgotten in 1861 rather than that he consistantly said he was born in Cradley Heath when he wasn't and lied about his father on his marriage certificate.

[linell]

Hi Kate, just giving my thoughts on what Jan has found:-

It is surely strange that William wasn't registered or baptised like his siblings. Samuel and Mary Ann Rose could have had other children before 1857, still births, infant mortality etc.

If you look Wm Smart and Wm Rose do not seem to ever be on the same Census entry it is always one or the other.

If Wm was born in Lincs, we don't know when they moved to Cradley Heath, he was probably only an infant or a very young child, I presume he did always think he was born in Cradley Heath, probably know one ever told him any different. I wouldn't think that the Smart family were good on communication. My Grandparents didn't tell me where they were born, I had to ask, and that was a 100 years later, family history wasn't a big issue like it is today.

You say that Wm gave Samuel Rose as father on his Marriage Certificate, did Wm Marry while Wm Smart Snr was still alive? I've not gone into all the dates. We don't know what went on between the Smart and Rose family, but something is not right We know for a fact that is was a very common occurance for Father's to be recorded on the Census and Marriage Entries when they weren't. I would put it as high as one in twenty entries where the details are circumspect.

Just my perspective, hopefully something will turn up one day to prove this theory one way or the other

Linell.

[Northern Lass]

3 Years we have been on this.....3 years!!
and I know Gardener has been juggling it for longer.......

Ok my views ....

1. The marriage certifs take with a pinch of salt I look up so many they put anything in there!
So if someone has brought them up then they often put that name on.

2. The strange thing is that there is definately something odd about that bapt which names single mother Selina, BUT
then the birth certif names father William Smart and mother Mary Smart formerly Roberts.
Why on earth would the bapt say one thing and the certif another.

3. The bapts for Spencer and Harriet at Graingers show that the family were, like the Tibbetts
involved with the church and I find it odd that William isn't baptised at all with the others.

4. No Birth regis yet the others were.

No death for a William Smart between 1851 and 1861 had the regis check for me

So I don't know!
I am itching to find something else to hang this on


Odd too that this William Smart snr and Selina Roberts didnt marry
and
she is in 1881 with him Roberts not Smart
and I think she dies in 1883 as a selina Roberts
need to check that one

so I am stuck
but its good fun trying to crack it

[Northern Lass]

Ok I think Selina dies as Roberts in 1883 checking that out
and
I think William is William Smart in the 1891 workhouse census dudley union at sedgley
aged 76
widower
general labourer

and get this...puts Northamptonshire as place of birth

and Samuel Rose is in there at the same time in 1891

now Northampton is where the Dodsons are from
http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tr ... =372529434

on the 1881 William Smart (called Roberts on 1881) is next door to Spencer Dodson son of Spencer dodson
http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tr ... =917844182

3 and 4 Tibbetts gardens

there is some connection to this lot