*Archived* -Hannah who married Joseph Rose b 1770

[Rosegarden]

I know we have discussed this before,but have been asked by Distantrelation if we could go over it again(he or she will be joining us soon)so they can explain more than i about this
I will start the reasoning behind what DR Say's
I think that hannah was Hannah FIELD,i know that there is some different views n this regards i have the following
Hannah FIELD was born into a Halesowen family and was baptised at St John Halesowen 1774 it seems likely that Hannah FIELD would have known Joseph from ST John
Joseph ROSE and hannah FIELD married 25 Dec 1794 at St Martins Birmingham
Not sure why they married there and not St Johns but it was not uncommon,particularly if it was underrenofation or there was social reasons for marrying elsewhere.
There is a lot more to this which i hope DR will explain later ok for now

[Northern Lass]

Good stuff RG look forward to seeing DR on here...he is very welcome
xx

[distantrelation]

Thank you for the welcome to this forum. I thought that I might start with something a bit controversial relating to who Hannah who married Joseph Rose (1770) was. I know that some Rose researchers have suggested that Hannah was Hannah Partridge of Northfield. I think that she was Hannah Field of Halesowen.

Hannah Field was born into a Halesowen family and was baptized at St. John's Halesowen in 1774. As noted by Rosegarden It seems likely that Hannah Field and Joseph (1770) would have known each other from St. John's.

Joseph Rose and Hannah (Field) married 25 December 1794 - St Martin's in the Bullring Birmingham.

The baptism of the first of Joseph and Hannah's 11 children (Hannah) is recorded at St. John's Halesowen 9 August 1795. This child died shortly after birth. This baptism of the first child was 8 months after the 1794 marriage date for Joseph Rose and Hannah Field. [By comparison if Hannah had been Hannah Partridge you would have to explain a gap of many years before any children arrived - see below. Further, Hannah Partridge would have been over 50 when the last child was born- perhaps a stretch in those days.]

Census information is also helpful in confirming Hannah Field as the likely Hannah. The 1841 Census was conducted Sunday, 6 June 1841. The rules for enumerators in that census required them to round down the ages of persons listed to the nearest lower 5 years. The Halesowen census lists Joseph aged 70 and Hannah aged 65 living at Manor Lane. If the enumerators did their job and Hannah knew her age, she was born after 6 June 1771 and before 6 June 1776.

The 1851 census was conducted on 28 March 1851. It was different from the 1841 census and required enumerators to state the actual ages of persons. The Halesowen census lists Joseph aged 80 and Hannah aged 80 living at 3 Mill Lane with their grandson William Rose (born 1815). Once again assuming that Hannah knew her age, she was born between 29 March 1772 and after 28 March 1771.

Hannah was buried 9 months after the 1851 census on 22.Dec.1851 at which time her age was listed as 81. The 1851 census information combined with the burial information would suggest that she was born between March and December 1771. Adding in the information from the 1841 census - Hannah the wife of Joseph (1770) was born between June and Dec 1771.

If this information is compared with the information related to Hannah Partridge of Northfield you will find from the Northfield registers that Hannah's parents:

Thomas Partridge and Hannah Littelle were married 25 Feb 1744 St. Laurence Northfield

Hannah Partridge daughter of Thomas & Hannah Partridge was baptised 10 Sept 1762 at Northfield.

Another entry says Hannah Partridge married a Joseph Rose described as a widower 8 Oct 1788 at St Laurence Northfield. In October 1788, Joseph (1770) would have been 18 - an unlikely age to be a widower looking for a second or third wife. There were several Joseph Roses alive in the vicinity of Northfield around that time including Joseph (1736), the father of Joseph (1770) who are more likely spouses for Hannah Partridge.

Further, what we know of the age of Hannah wife of Joseph Rose (1770) does not correspond to the baptismal records of Hannah Partridge, as Hannah Partridge was at least 8 years older than Joseph Rose (1770). Hannah Partridge's age, given her baptism in 1762, is not consistent with any of the ages given for the wife of Joseph Rose (1770) in the 1841 census, the 1851 census or the burial records for Hannah Rose wife of Joseph (1770).

Does anyone have any contradictory evidence suggesting that Hannah Partridge (1762) of Northfield was the wife of Joseph (1770)?

[Northern Lass]

Hi DR welcome to the forum ....

I don't really have any evidence one way or the other but wanted to show you this tree that we are adding to and it has your Roses on (might be my Roses too going back if I can find the connection...)

http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tr ... =620380211

My Cousin (Gardener on here) and I started this tree to house all the names of the area and surrounds.
Have a look and if you might like to become involved send me a pm and I will give you the details.

There are a great deal of roses on that tree.... i will resist the urge to say "Roses grow on you!"

[Tex]

Hi DR welcome to the forum ....

I don't really have any evidence one way or the other but wanted to show you this tree that we are adding to and it has your Roses on (might be my Roses too going back if I can find the connection...)

http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tr ... =620380211

My Cousin (Gardener on here) and I started this tree to house all the names of the area and surrounds.
Have a look and if you might like to become involved send me a pm and I will give you the details.

There are a great deal of roses on that tree.... i will resist the urge to say "Roses grow on you!"

Elizabeth TAYLOR wife of James Rose-1839 was the illegitimate daughter of Jane Pearson Taylor-1816-1843 and William RUTTER. One of the sons of James & Elizabeth was also James, bapt 10th Jan 1859 (St. Johns ?). In 1895 James married Annie FRISBY - at St Peters Stoke on Trent. Annie was the widow of David Frisby who had died in 1894 aged 31. Annie's maiden name was GIFFORD.
Jane Pearson Taylor was a sister of my g-g-grandfather William Pearson Taylor 1808-1882

[peterd]

Elizabeth TAYLOR wife of James Rose-1839 was the illegitimate daughter of Jane Pearson Taylor-1816-1843 and William RUTTER. One of the sons of James & Elizabeth was also James, bapt 10th Jan 1859 (St. Johns ?). In 1895 James married Annie FRISBY - at St Peters Stoke on Trent. Annie was the widow of David Frisby who had died in 1894 aged 31. Annie's maiden name was GIFFORD.
Jane Pearson Taylor was a sister of my g-g-grandfather William Pearson Taylor 1808-1882

hi tex and welcome to the forum and bcc



ive found the marriage for elizabeth and james rose (you have james c 1839 and he down as 1829 on bcc?)

here the link (this is so everyone who reads the post tex know what were on about)

http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tr ... d=50403959

do you have any census etc to confirm the data cheers pete

[peterd]

here the two marriages and death tex was on about

ROSE James FISBY Annie 1895 Stoke, St Peter Staffordshire

(fisby just an entry mistake?, do you have both marriage cert ?)

Deaths Jun 1894
Frisby David 28 Stoke T

FRISBY David GIFFORD Annie E 1890 Trent Vale, St John Staffordshire Stoke-On-Trent

[Tex]

In 1891 David and wife Annie wre living with her parents at 11, Sideway Road, Boothen Stoke on Trent. Frisby has been interpreted as FOUSBY !
In 1901 James Rose and Annie were living at 29, Bagnalls Cottages, St. Peters Stoke on Trent. At RG13/2609 page 42 Schedule 241. Annie is shown as Anna in the index.
I THINK that the couple had at least 4 children, James 1902 died 1902, Edith-1912, Ernest-1913, & Harold-1918. These are all unverified, taken from FreeBMD. There are almost certainly others in the years between 1902 and 1912.

[Northern Lass]

Hi Tex
So is James Rose 1839 or 1829?

and where does it show that so I can change it on Connections.

I am interested in getting all the Rose info on there so do have a look at the site and if you would like to join in send me a pm and I will let you know whats what.

[Rosegarden]

Hi i have wife for James Rose being Annie Egerton Gifford from S O T with one daughter May Rose b 31 July 1901 sorry thats all i have
James Rose b 13 april 1829 funny though can't find him in 1841 census

[Northern Lass]

Hi RG

We really need to clarify when this James is born so the tree is correct....super sleuths ...go!!

[Tex]

Hi i have wife for James Rose being Annie Egerton Gifford from S O T with one daughter May Rose b 31 July 1901 sorry thats all i have
James Rose b 13 april 1829 funny though can't find him in 1841 census

I think that you are quite correct. James's wife was Annie Egerton Gifford, but she was actually a widow when she married James. As you will find earlier on this thread, she married James at St. Peters Stoke in 1895.
I think that the entry on FreeBMD and on the StaffsBMD are in error where they give the name as FISBY.
Annie Egerton Gifford married David FRISBY at St Johns Trent Vale in 1890 and David died in 1894. The couple had one little boy,also David, born in 1894, but the little one died in 1895.
Davids birth was registered at Birmingham in 1863, but in 1871 the family were living at Monks Coppenhall Crewe.
David had an elder brother Frederick- (1855 Birmingham) and in 1878 Frederick married Rhoda EDWARDS in a civil ceremony at Wolstanton Staffs. Rhoda was a half-sister to my paternal g-grandmother.

[peterd]

hi any one find joesph rose c 1802 wife mary in early census ie 41,51

here the link to children
http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tr ... =456968686

looking to confirm james dob cheers


rg as of yet theres no marriage entry for james jrn c 1859 son of james rose and elizabeth Taylor?

[FarSide]

Is this them
1841
Mill Lane, Township of Hunnington
Joseph Rose 35 - Nailor
Mary Rose 35
Charles Rose 15
William Rose 13
David Rose 10
George Rose 8
Joseph Rose 6
Moses Rose 3
Ann Rose 4 Mo
All born in county except Mary

1851
2 Mill Lane, Hunnington
Ann Rose 10
David Rose 19
George Rose 17
Joseph Rose 49
Joseph Rose 15
Mary Rose 40
Samuel Rose 25
Steper Rose 12 - Stephen
Thomas Rose 7

Next door
3 Mill Lane
Ann Rese 21
Hannah Rese 20 - Pauper (age looks like it could be 80)
Joseph Rese 32 - Grandfather - Pauper nailor (age looks like it could be 82)
William Rese 23

[Rosegarden]

Thats them Farside but no James