ARC TBC - Is it Robinson or Welch

[aviator]

Would be really grateful of any help with my Brick Wall please. Am looking for John Robinson born 1884 Middlesbrough. A relative thinks he was born as John Welsh and gave me these details.

1891 Census 14, Nixon Street, Linthorpe, Middlesbrough:-
WELSH, Patrick Head Married M 29 1862 Puddler
Clapham
London
WELSH, Catherine Wife Married F 23 1868
Stockton
Co Durham
WELSH, John William Son M 7 1884
Middlesbrough
Yorkshire
WELSH, James Son M 5 1886
Middlesbrough
Yorkshire
WELSH, Peter Son M 4 1887
Middlesbrough
Yorkshire
WELSH, Mary Daughter F 2 1889
Middlesbrough
Yorkshire

This could be Catherine with husband William Robinson in 1911
1911 Census 1a Ward's Terrace Karen Lodge West Hartlepool Durham:-
ROBINSON, William Head Married M 49 1862 Labourer Kings Lynn Norfolk
ROBINSON, Kate Wife Married 28 years F 44 1867 Middlesbro Yorkshire
ROBINSON, Peter Son Single M 23 1888 Fireman On Engine Middlesbro Yorkshire
ROBINSON, Kate Daughter Single F 18 1893 Middlesbro Yorkshire
ROBINSON, Joseph Son Single M 16 1895 Cleaner On Electric Bus Middlesbro Yorkshire
ROBINSON, Edward Son Single M 15 1896 Butcher Assistant Middlesbro Yorkshire
ROBINSON, William Son M 14 1897 Carrying From Machine West Hartlepool Durham
ROBINSON, Jane Elseth Daughter F 12 1899 School West Hartlepool Durham
ROBINSON, Harry Son M 10 1901 School West Hartlepool Durham
ROBINSON, Tom Son M 9 1902 West Hartlepool Durham
ROBINSON, Annie Daughter F 7 1904 West Hartlepool Durham
ROBINSON, Albert Son M 5 1906 West Hartlepool Durham
ROBINSON, Violet Daughter F 1 1910 West Hartlepool Durham

Cannot find any of them in 1901. Any help very welcome thankyou.

[MarkCDodd]

I would say that William and Kate are this couple....

Groom's Name: William Robinson
Groom's Birth Date: 1859
Groom's Birthplace:
Groom's Age: 30
Bride's Name: Kate Wrigglesworth
Bride's Birth Date: 1866
Bride's Birthplace:
Bride's Age: 23
Marriage Date: 15 Jun 1889
Marriage Place: Gateshead, Durham, England
Groom's Father's Name: Joseph Robinson
Groom's Mother's Name:
Bride's Father's Name: Richard Wrigglesworth
Bride's Mother's Name:
Groom's Race:
Groom's Marital Status: Single
Groom's Previous Wife's Name:
Bride's Race:
Bride's Marital Status: Single
Bride's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M01612-0
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1514576
Reference Number: p40 rn 80

[Maths girl]

1901 82, Milbank Street, Middlesbrough

LONG, Edward Head Married M 32 1869 Steel Works Labourer Monmouthshire So Wales
LONG, Mary Wife Married F 27 1874 Middlesbro Yorkshire
LONG, Margaret Daughter Single F 3 1898 Middlesbro Yorkshire
LONG, Peter Son Single M 2 1899 Middlesbro Yorkshire VIEW
LONG, Johanar Daughter Single F 0 (4 MOS) 1901 Middlesbro Yorkshire
WELSH, Patrick Boarder Married M 39 1862 Puddler Ironworks London
WELSH, James Boarder Single M 16 1885 General Labourer Middlesbro Yorkshire
WELSH, Peter Boarder Single M 14 1887 General Labourer Middlesbro Yorkshire
ROBERTSON, Rosey Servant Single F 11 1890 Domestic Servant London

[Maths girl]

1901 6, Bedford Street, West Hartlepool
ROBINSON, William Head Married M 39 1862 Labourer Blast Furnaces Norfolk
ROBINSON, Kate Wife Married F 34 1867 Stockton Durham
ROBINSON, John Son Single M 17 1884 Labourer Rolling Mills Middlesbro Yorkshire
ROBINSON, Kate Daughter Single F 8 1893 Middlesbro Yorkshire
ROBINSON, Joseph Son Single M 6 1895 Middlesbro Yorkshire
ROBINSON, Edward Son Single M 5 1896 Middlesbro Yorkshire
ROBINSON, William Son Single M 3 1898 Wt Hartlepool Durham
ROBINSON, Jane E Daughter Single F 1 1900 Wt Hartlepool Durham

[aviator]

Thankyou Maths Girl seems that the Welch connection is a red herring then. So grateful you found William and Kate in 1901. I don't think the Marriage found by Mark is the right one as there dates of birth are wrong. I will see if there is another marriage, regards from aviator.

[aviator]

It looks like Catherine/Kate Married but cannot find it, Patrick Walsh/Welch about 1884. She had John, 1884, James 1886 and Peter 1887, Mary 1889. Then there is a gap, by 1901 Catherine/Kate is with William Robinson and has Robinson children. James and Peter Walsh/Robinson are living with there father Patrick. Does anyone have any ideas of proving this thanks from aviator.

[Maths girl]

It looks like Catherine/Kate Married but cannot find it, Patrick Walsh/Welch about 1884. She had John, 1884, James 1886 and Peter 1887, Mary 1889. Then there is a gap, by 1901 Catherine/Kate is with William Robinson and has Robinson children. James and Peter Walsh/Robinson are living with there father Patrick. Does anyone have any ideas of proving this thanks from aviator.

Don't know whether it helps the 1911 census has some dispute on how many children were around!

Next to William it says 14 born 12 living -- this is crossed through
Next to KAte it was as above and then over written to say 15 born and 13 living.

[aviator]

Oh thanks Maths Girl looks like Kate maybe had one child before she married then. I am totally confused though, will have to try and send for some certificates thankyou from aviator.

[Maths girl]

Oh thanks Maths Girl looks like Kate maybe had one child before she married then. I am totally confused though, will have to try and send for some certificates thankyou from aviator.

A possibility or William forgot one or couldn't count !!!

[peterd]

poss

Marriages Dec 1884

Garthwaite Ann Auckland 10a 193
Mason Catherine Auckland 10a 193
Robinson William Auckland 10a 193
Ryder William Auckland 10a 193


or

Marriages Dec 1882

Armstrong Catherine Sunderland 10a 764
Arnstrong Cartherine Sunderland 10a 764
DAVISON Robert Sunderland 10a 764
Letbe Mary A Sunderland 10a 764
Letle Mary A Sunderland 10a 764
LETBE Mary A Sunderland 10a 764
LET[HE_] Mary A Sunderland 10a 764
ROBINSON William Sunderland 10a 764

[cid]

there is this from Free BMD

Marriages Jun 1883

Dobbing Martha Jane Middlesbro' 9d 823
ESPIE Catherine Jane Middlesbro' 9d 823
Rogerson James Middlesborough 9d 823
WELSH Patrick Middlesbro' 9d 823

[Maths girl]

1881 30, Commercial St, Middlesbrough
DOLAN, Francis Head Married M 55 1826 Engine Works Labourer (Cm) Ireland
DOLAN, Maria Wife Married F 48 1833 Ireland
DOLAN, Francis Son Single M 23 1858 Boiler Smith Middlesbrough Yorkshire
DOLAN, Rose A Daughter Single F 20 1861 Middlesbrough Yorkshire
DOLAN, William Son Single M 19 1862 Iron Works Labourer Leeds Yorkshire
DOLAN, Micheal Son Single M 17 1864 Iron Works Labourer Middlesbrough Yorkshire
DOLAN, Patrick Son Single M 13 1868 Scholar Middlesbrough Yorkshire
DOLAN, Stephen Son Single M 12 1869 Iron Works Labourer Middlesbrough Yorkshire
HENDERSON, John Lodger Single M 47 1834 Blacksmith Harrington Durham
DOLAN, Francis Lodger Head Married M 26 1855 Iron Works Labourer Ireland
DOLAN, Ellon Lodgers Wife Married F 20 1861 South Stockton Yorkshire
ESPIE, Samuel Lodger Head Widower M 35 1846 Labourer At Warfe Scotland
ESPIE, Catherine Lodgers Daughter Single F 16 1865 Stockton Durham
ESPIE, William Lodgers Son Single M 13 1868 Scholar Middlesbrough Yorkshire
Some of these facts could link the corrects marriages together!

[cid]

1911

Middlesbrough Union Workhouse, Cemetery Road

WELSH, Patrick Inmate Married M 49 1862 Puddler Surrey London

Did Patrick & Catherine get divorced? He still says he's marrried here.

[Maths girl]

Confused

This one born right place!
1881 18, Monsell St, Linthorpe
WELCH, Peter Head Widower M 60 1821 Bricklayers Labr Deaf Ireland
WELCH, Patrick Son Single M 19 1862 Genl Labr London Middlesex

This one right job, spelling and area!
1881 5, Chapmans Yd, Middlesbrough
WELSH, John Head Married M 44 1837 Puddler (Iron) Hanley Staffordshire
WELSH, Mary Wife Married F 43 1838 Ireland
WELSH, Patrick Son Single M 19 1862 Puddler (Iron) Witton Park Durham
WELSH, Michael Son Single M 9 1872 Scholar South Bank Yorkshire
WELSH, James Son Single M 11 1870 Scholar Hartlepool Durham
WELSH, Ann Daughter Single F 16 1865 Middlesbrough Yorkshire

[peterd]

Thankyou Maths Girl seems that the Welch connection is a red herring then. So grateful you found William and Kate in 1901. I don't think the Marriage found by Mark is the right one as there dates of birth are wrong. I will see if there is another marriage, regards from aviator.

aviator says welch is wrong so looking for robinson