*Arc TBC* -- Nellie (Ellen) Turner

[annabelle]

I am researching my grandmother called Nellie (Ellen) Turner who married John Garvey Turner in Birmingham in 1922 (previous name Matthews, maiden name Wilson). I have traced my grandfather John Garvey Turner who died in 1951, but cannot find any trace of Nellie. My father said he was told when he was a young boy that his mother (Nellie) had died, but has always doubted it, maybe she left home etc. I can find no trace of a death for Nellie (Ellen) at all, so wonder if maybe she re-married or changed her name before she died. I need help as I have hit a brick wall on this.annabelle

Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:34 pm

[mallosa]

Marriages Dec 1922
LOWE Thomas H Simpson Aston 6d 994
MATTHEWS Ellen Turner Aston 6d 994
SIMPSON Jane Lowe Aston 6d 994
TURNER John Matthews Aston 6d 994

Do you have this marriage cert Annabelle?

[mallosa]

I wonder if this was her 1st marriage...

Marriages Sep 1904
Creamer George Birmingham 6d 44
Matthews James Edward Birmingham 6d 44
Wilson Ellen Birmingham 6d 44
Woodley Minnie Birmingham 6d 44

[annabelle]

Hi, thanks for the possible tracings. Sadly I have already gone through these. The marriage to James Edward Matthews is not correct. I contacted Birmingham Registry and under that entry number those two people did not marry each other I was told. Anyway, my main interest is in what happened to Nellie. She married my grandfather John Turner on 11 Nov 1922 (have certificate) in Aston, Birmingham (John Turner and Ellen Matthews). My father was born in 1919 (prior to marriage) in Bristol (John Turner). His younger brother William Eric was born in 1924 in Birmingham.
I have checked electoral rolls at Birmingham Library and Ellen (Nellie) was living with John Turner at 208 Watery Lane right up to approx 1930. I then have no address for them after that. Grandfather alone re-appears on electoral roll in 1939/40 at 2b Dassett Grove, Birmingham. He lived there until his death in April 1951. But Nellie is nowhere to be seen. I can find no death record for her and that is what I need to find. I have certificates for my grandfather's birth in 1870, his marriage in 1922, his death in 1951, Ellen's (possible) birth certificate in 1884 (father shown as John Wilson on her marriage cert so hope birth cert is correct). John and Nellie definitely lied about their ages on their marriage certificate!!! Grandfather reduced his age and Nellie increased hers !!! I really am stuck and that brick wall is getting higher. Help desperately needed to find out what happened to Nellie (Ellen) Turner, my grandmother. I have a photo of her inherited from Dad but sadly photos do not talk !!!

[peterd]

was nellie from bristol if not what was they doing there any idea's ?

[annabelle]

Hi, Yes that question has often occurred to me. My dad was born in Bristol, but my grandfather was definitely from Birmingham. Nellie married in Birmingham and had her second son in Birmingham where they all lived (even I was born in Birmingham). My grandfather was a Blacksmith by trade and it does seem odd that they lived in Bristol in 1919 when Dad was born. Anything to do with post war? I have no idea. I have a birth certificate for an Ellen Wilson born in Birmingham in 1884 (father John Wilson/mother Emma Wilson) and am pretty certain it is correct. On her marriage certificate to my grandfather in 1922 she names her father as John Wilson. I also have a copy of an entry in the 1891 census for Ellen Wilson aged 6 (mother named as Emma Wilson but no father shown) at an address 61 Soho Road, Birmingham. The birth certificate I have is for 76 Soho Road, Birmingham. It seems to me therefore that she was born in Birmingham, so the mystery about being in Bristol when Dad was born remains. This woman remains a total mystery to me but I am determined to find out what happened to her and when and where she eventually died. I promised my Dad I would find out for him before he died. He never truly believed she had died when he was told so as a child. Any help is massively appreciated. It is like a jigsaw with the final piece just not there!

[peterd]

do you have the address where your dad was born 1919 put it on some one might able to see who was there in the 1911 census might help if not i surgest sending for electrol roll register for the address for years 1918 - 1920 to see what info you get ?

[mallosa]

annabelle, forgive me if I haven't read your post correctly but could this possibly be your John and Ellen?

1945 Balsall Heath Ward 542 706 CI Turner Ellen 23 STRENSHAM ROAD
1945 Balsall Heath Ward 542 705 CI Turner John G 23 STRENSHAM ROAD

[annabelle]

Wow if it is John and Ellen, then that is very, very strange. My dad's brother, William Eric, died in 1944 in War, and Grandfather John was living at 2b Dassett Grove at that time ALONE. My parents married in 1939 and the story is that Ellen was not "around" at that time, thought dead from Dad's childhood. What makes me wonder though is the names you state being Ellen and John G. I would need to know what that G stands for. Grandfather's full name is John Garvey Turner, but he did not use the G when he got married, or when he died. My Mum never knew of Ellen when she married Dad and according to her she had been dead a long time according to all stories. I do not think this entry is John and Ellen as I have found Grandfather living at 2b Dassett Grove until his death in 1951 and no Ellen!! Thank you for coming up with this but I guess the search continues.

[annabelle]

Hi Peterd
My Dad was born in General Hospital Bristol. Their address at time was 48 St Marks Road, Easton, Bristol. Nellie (Ellen) shows her name as Nellie Turner formerly Matthews (although she was not married to Grandfather John at that time, they married 3 years later). They telling "porky pies" on official documents in those days!! How do I send for electoral roll register for 1918-20? Never done that before.

[Antie Em]

Is this still a Brickwall?
or have you solved it?

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