Searching for my grandmother's birth record

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Re: Searching for my grandmother's birth record

Postby Northern Lass » Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:46 am

PascalePC wrote:*NB.
The GRO just gave me a refund for the Edith M Jones 1923 birth record search. The mother's first name can't be Hilda....*


so what was the dob on this one?...and why was it that the mothers name cant be Hilda...I thought that is what you were after ...mother being a Hilda Hardwick.
Births Dec 1923
Jones Edith M Hardwick Rhayader 11b 196

is this one worth asking what mothers name is and dob
Births Dec 1924
Hardwick Marion Hardwick Wakefield 9c 45
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Re: Searching for my grandmother's birth record

Postby Northern Lass » Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:49 am

Trying to follow all this now as difficult with 6 pages

so adding to Bcc to help us view while we work on it..
https://www.tribalpages.com/tribe/brows ... =272749923

come on you lot help us crack this.... :wink:
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Re: Searching for my grandmother's birth record

Postby Northern Lass » Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:23 am

Pascale where in worcs was Hilda born
with a bit of luck it is near the Bc area and we can run with the BC info so if anyone sees it on Bcc they will contact us
and we can forward to you

Her mother was called Hilda Hardwick and was born 08/05/1902 in Worcester (I have her birth certificate and death certificate).

can you post info on this pls :wink:
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Re: Searching for my grandmother's birth record

Postby PascalePC » Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:56 am

Northern Lass wrote:And another query....I have. Pascale do you actually have the birth certif for Reginald Wyndham Jones cos on that it would show her maiden name and formerly names...so if married a few times it should show...at least it has for me... so eg. if she was married this Margaret to George Games JONES on certif for Reginald it should say mother Margaret JOnes formerly Smith...or something like that .. that way it would show at that time her name and her maiden name. So would be worth getting that I think.

I do have it. It says 'Margaret Jones, formerly Smith'. No mention of another marriage.

Northern Lass wrote:I think you might be right Pascale and on 1911 they are not married but she is a jOnes so her kids would be Jones and that George for appearance takes her name..... cos when he dies he is
Deaths Jun 1932
Sollars George W E 69 Hull 9d 306


I'm wondering if Margaret Jones and George Sollars perhaps even had an affair before or around 1901 (maybe they got found out or he just left his wife?) and they realised they wanted to marry, perhaps Margaret got pregnant with George Sollars' baby in 1901, even (they say they had 2 deceased children on the 1911 census record). I say this because I just can't get the following census out of my head, where he is already George Jones by 1901. Perhaps he is just deciding here in 1901 that he is George Jones, perhaps living with a friend who also gave him work? 'George Jones. Boarder. Single. Male. 38. 1863. General Labourer. Born in Bristol, Gloucestershire.' On Reginald's birth certificate, it says his father is George Jones, and his occupation was general labourer. On their 1911 census record, it says George Jones was born in Bristol in 1863.

1901 census:
27, Quarella Street, Barry, Cardiff, Glamorganshire, Wales
George Cooper. Head. Married. Male. 39. 1862. General Labourer. Offord D'Arcy, Huntingdonshire.
Francis Cooper. Wife. Married. Female. 37. 1864. Southoe, Huntingdonshire.
Walter Cooper. Son. Single. Male. 12. 1889. Southoe, Huntingdonshire.
William Cooper. Son. Single. Male. 11. 1890. Buckden, Huntingdonshire.
Charles Cooper. Son. Single Male. 5. 1896. Lutterworth, Leicestershire.
Jesse Anson. Boarder. Single. Male. 54. 1847. General Labourer Hambleton, Yorkshire.
Frederick Watts. Boarder. Single. Male. 28. 1873. General Labourer. Wicklewood, Norfolk.
George Jones. Boarder. Single. Male. 38. 1863. General Labourer Bristol, Gloucestershire.
George M Lacey. Boarder. Married. Male. 23. 1878. Musical Director. Maidenhead, Berkshire.
Dorothy E Lacey. Boarder Married. Female. 20. 1881. Actress London, Middlesex.

He is also here (the last known record of him with Caroline Ann Sollars):

1901 census: (Here you can see his middle name is Edward, like on Reginald’s birth cert)
52, Cyfarthfa Street, Roath, Cardiff, Glamorganshire, Wales
Geo Wm Edw Sollars Head. Married Male. 38. 1863 Railway Goods Guard Bristol, Gloucestershire.
Caroline Annie Sollars. Wife. Married. Female. 53. 1848. Bristol, Gloucestershire
Clara Sollars Daughter. Single. Female. 18. 1883. Bristol, Gloucestershire.
Ethel May Sollars. Daughter. Single Female 17. 1884. Bristol, Gloucestershire.
Nellie Sollars Daughter. Single Female 15. 1886. Domestic Servant. Bristol, Gloucestershire.
Fredk James Sollars. Son. Single. Male. 11. 1890. Bath, Somerset.
Beatrice Sollars. Niece. Single. Female 4. 1897. Bristol, Gloucestershire.

Northern Lass wrote:Question.....when does Reginald die and what is his surname...does he use Sollars again? any electoral info as to Georges surname
does he keep with JOnes ...or change back to Sollars after 1911

Reginald dies as Reginald Wyndham Jones in 1982 in Portsmouth.
After 1911 the next known records of George and Margaret Jones are these census ones:

1927 electoral roll.
24, Saint Luke’s Street, Hull, Yorkshire
George Jones
Margaret Jones

1928 electoral roll.
24, Saint Luke’s Street, Hull, Yorkshire
George Jones
Margaret Jones

1929 electoral roll.
24, Saint Luke’s Street, Hull, Yorkshire
George Jones
Margaret Jones
Frederick Howe

1930 electoral roll.
24, Saint Luke’s Street, Hull, Yorkshire
George Jones
Margaret Jones
William Arthur Jones (with an a next to it - absent voter, I think?)

1931 electoral roll.
24, Saint Luke’s Street, Hull, Yorkshire
George Jones
Margaret Jones
William Arthur Jones
Reginald Wyndham Jones
Hilda Jones

The next record I have for George Jones is what I believe to be him when he died, as George W E Sollars again:
Death record:
GEORGE W E SOLLARS
Birth year 1863
Age 69
Q2 1932
Hull, Yorkshire
Volume 9D, Page 306

I'm starting to think they George and Margaret (senior, born 1877) never married!?

Northern Lass wrote:
PascalePC wrote:*NB. The GRO just gave me a refund for the Edith M Jones 1923 birth record search. The mother's first name can't be Hilda....*

so what was the dob on this one?...and why was it that the mothers name cant be Hilda...I thought that is what you were after ...mother being a Hilda Hardwick.
Births Dec 1923
Jones Edith M Hardwick Rhayader 11b 196

Sorry - I meant that I asked the GRO for this record, but only if the mother’s first name was Hilda. They refunded me, so it means her mother’s first name wasn’t Hilda.
Northern Lass wrote:is this one worth asking what mothers name is and dob
Births Dec 1924
Hardwick Marion Hardwick Wakefield 9c 45

Yes, I will check this one for Margaret (junior). Thanks. I think now I’m not so attached to 31/12/1923 as her DOB, I think I’ll check the GRO later for this one again, and check if the mother's first name is Hilda:

MARGARET SEDGWICK
Q1 1924
Mother's last name Hardwick
Sheffield

Northern Lass wrote:Pascale where in worcs was Hilda born with a bit of luck it is near the Bc area and we can run with the BC info so if anyone sees it on Bcc they will contact us and we can forward to you
Her mother was called Hilda Hardwick and was born 08/05/1902 in Worcester (I have her birth certificate and death certificate).
can you post info on this pls :wink:

Oh thank you, Northern Lass :)
Birth certificate info:
County Borough of Worcester and County of Worcester
Hilda Hardwick. Girl. Born 08/05/1902 at 14, York Place, Worcester. Father: William Henry Hardwick. Mother: Edith Mary Hardwick, formerly Day. Occupation of father: Brushmaker (journeyman). Registered: 20/06/1902.

Death certificate info:
County Borough of Portsmouth
Died: 20/12/1973 at St Mary’s hospital, Portsmouth.
Hilda Jones. Female. Maiden name: Hardewicke
Date and place of birth: Worester, Worcestershire.
Occupation: Wife of Reginald Wyndham Jones. Storeman. 46, Portobello Grove, Portchester, Fareham.
Name & surname of informant: Reginald Wyndham Jones. Widower of deceased.
46, Portobello Grove, Portchester, Fareham.
Cause of death: adenocarcinoma of ovary, carcinomatosis
Date of registration: 21/12/1973
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Re: Searching for my grandmother's birth record

Postby Northern Lass » Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:05 am

Ok....so the only thing for me that keeps sticking is that dob....I do think that is her dob
it is on her passport-french citizen card- you all knew it as that-and on her death certif info

I think she is called Margaret after REginalds mother

and she is born in Hull....

so might be worth putting a post on and in that post on this thread put all the certifs we have said and why discounted
I can add that to Bcc will help us not repeat the info.

I think that you are right and maybe they never married George Sollars/Jones and Margaret.
That birth is interesting for Reginald

do you have wm Arthurs wondering if it says anything like
mother Jones formerly Jones formerly smith
that was what I was getting at I had a birth that said that sort of thing so you could see that she had a maiden name but was married prev few times..
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Re: Searching for my grandmother's birth record

Postby Northern Lass » Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:08 am

Could you ask the GRO to do a sweep for a person born
1923 or 1924 with mothers maiden name Hardwick

and say mothers first name maybe Hilda
and dob maybe 31 12 1923

or better still contact Hull regis office pay them the money and if they dont find it they will refund....I think?

I have used the local regis offices loads of times for a sweep.
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Re: Searching for my grandmother's birth record

Postby PascalePC » Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:37 am

Northern Lass wrote:so might be worth putting a post on and in that post on this thread put all the certifs we have said and why discounted
I can add that to Bcc will help us not repeat the info.

Wow, yes. I’ve looked up an awful lot of Margarets. I think I wrote down what I did somewhere! Will try to organise that :)

Northern Lass wrote: That birth is interesting for Reginald ..do you have wm Arthurs wondering if it says anything like mother Jones formerly Jones formerly smith. that was what I was getting at I had a birth that said that sort of thing so you could see that she had a maiden name but was married prev few times..

I think I might be of the mind that George and Margaret weren’t married (to each other) when they had Reginald and William then. And no, I haven’t got a birth certificate for Reginald’s brother, William. I suspect it would also say mother was Margaret Jones, formerly Smith. I reckon George and Margaret didn’t marry. Bit shocking though, for those times!

Northern Lass wrote:Could you ask the GRO to do a sweep for a person born 1923 or 1924 with mothers maiden name Hardwick and say mothers first name maybe Hilda and dob maybe 31 12 1923 or better still contact Hull regis office pay them the money and if they dont find it they will refund....I think? I have used the local regis offices loads of times for a sweep.

I just asked the GRO and they said they need a name to be able to search. They suggested trying the Samaritans family tracing service. Anyone heard of this? Not sure what records they would have access to?
Re Hull record office - they told me they didn’t have time to search any more records. I kept asking them to check different records when the one I paid for (Margaret Jones, 31/12/1923) didn’t work. I later came up with a spreadsheet of all the Margarets born in Hull in 1923/24 and they wouldn’t look (not surprised though!). I asked them already if they could look to see if any records had DOB 31/12/1923 with mother’s maiden name Hilda Hardwick and they had said they need a name… :(
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Re: Searching for my grandmother's birth record

Postby Northern Lass » Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:19 am

Did you check these ones?
Births Mar 1924
Jacobs Betty I Hardwick Worcester 6c 198
Lawrence Muriel O Hardwick Worcester 6c 216

also did you check the electoral registers where is Hilda from 1911 onwards until she marries?
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Re: Searching for my grandmother's birth record

Postby Northern Lass » Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:28 am

And this lot
Births Dec 1923
WILSON Lilian Hardwick Sculcoates 9d 164

Births Jun 1924
Clark Margaret E Hardwick Driffield 9d 592


That Sculcotes one stands out......but only cos that is where Reginald and HIlda got married
1925. Marriage solemnised at the Parish Church in the Parish of St Paul, Sculcoates

:shock:
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Re: Searching for my grandmother's birth record

Postby Northern Lass » Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:34 am

Just a thought...could it be that Reginald and Hilda couldn't have children?
so Margaret was adopted by them?

might be worth seeing if any of these have dob 31-12-1923

Births Mar 1924
Escreet Margaret E Carmichael Hull 9d 487
Griffin Margaret Longthorn Hull 9d 542
Parkinson Margaret J Coates Hull 9d 534
Watt Margaret Davis Hull 9d 522

GRO could do a search and refund if on certifs dob isnt 31-12-1923...worth a look...

just odd no more kids for Hilda ...
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Re: Searching for my grandmother's birth record

Postby Northern Lass » Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:52 am

Did we dismiss this....
might be worth saying at GRO you only want it if father is Samuel for George

and did you think about getting George William Sollars marriage to Caroline?...checking who father is on there...then that might be when you can check the 1904 one below....
GEORGE JONES
Q1 1904
MarriageFinder™ GEORGE JONES married one of these people
Margaret Jones, Agnes Rogers
Bedwellty, Monmouthshire, Wales
Volume 11A, Page 114)
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Re: Searching for my grandmother's birth record

Postby Northern Lass » Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:42 am

PascalePC wrote:*NB.
The GRO just gave me a refund for the Edith M Jones 1923 birth record search. The mother's first name can't be Hilda....*


what was the quarter on this one and what was the surname found?

did they tell you what the middle name M was for.
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Re: Searching for my grandmother's birth record

Postby PascalePC » Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:02 am

Northern Lass wrote:Did you check these ones?
Births Mar 1924
Jacobs Betty I Hardwick Worcester 6c 198
Lawrence Muriel O Hardwick Worcester 6c 216
also did you check the electoral registers where is Hilda from 1911 onwards until she marries?

Hi Northern lass, thanks for your suggestions :) Well I found:
Marriage:
Q3 1943
BETTY I JACOBS married Cecil E Carter
Worcester

Death:
MURIEL O LAWRENCE
Age 14
Death year Q1 1938
Worcester

So they don’t look like our ‘Margaret’

The only electoral roll records I can find for a Hilda Hardwick anywhere in UK before 1925 are these in Leeds:

1923. 49, Steinbeck Rd, Leeds
Hilda Roberts Hardwick & Sidney Prince Hardwick

1924. 49, Steinbeck Rd, Leeds
Hilda Roberts Hardwick & Sidney Prince Hardwick

(Strange names for both aren’t they?)

Northern Lass wrote:And this lot
Births Dec 1923
WILSON Lilian Hardwick Sculcoates 9d 164
Births Jun 1924
Clark Margaret E Hardwick Driffield 9d 592
That Sculcotes one stands out......but only cos that is where Reginald and HIlda got married 1925. Marriage solemnised at the Parish Church in the Parish of St Paul, Sculcoates :shock:

*Update* - I forgot to say I ordered Margaret ‘Jones’ death certificate, She was Margaret Thorne when she died. The birth details there say 31/12/1923. Sculcoates, Humberside. So it says Sculcoates there too. I will add Lilian Wilson to my list to check (I am gathering a long list of possibles and will gradually check… then I will update the thread once they’ve all been checked).
Yes, I have checked Margaret E Clark born in Driffield with MMN Hardwick. The DOB is not 31/12/1923 and the mother’s 1st name is not Hilda.


Northern Lass wrote:Just a thought...could it be that Reginald and Hilda couldn't have children?
so Margaret was adopted by them?
might be worth seeing if any of these have dob 31-12-1923
Births Mar 1924
Escreet Margaret E Carmichael Hull 9d 487
Griffin Margaret Longthorn Hull 9d 542
Parkinson Margaret J Coates Hull 9d 534
Watt Margaret Davis Hull 9d 522
GRO could do a search and refund if on certifs dob isnt 31-12-1923...worth a look...
just odd no more kids for Hilda ...


Yes, it could be the case that they couldn’t have kids, but in another way, it seems like they would be too young to know this (they couldn’t have tried for that long as Reg would have been 18 in 1923)
I’ll give those 4 a go for DOB 31/12/1923 at the end of my list - thanks, adding them now.

Northern Lass wrote:Did we dismiss this....
might be worth saying at GRO you only want it if father is Samuel for George
and did you think about getting George William Sollars marriage to Caroline?...checking who father is on there...then that might be when you can check the 1904 one below....
GEORGE JONES
Q1 1904
MarriageFinder™ GEORGE JONES married one of these people
Margaret Jones, Agnes Rogers
Bedwellty, Monmouthshire, Wales
Volume 11A, Page 114)

Ah I had overlooked this. Oh yes, so see if those marriages match father being Samuel. Good call. Going to have to wait for my payday for those, I think. I did see a George and Margaret Jones living in Bedwellty in 1911 or electoral roll - I think that’s why I didn’t get too excited about that marriage. But definitely worth a check - thank you :)

Northern Lass wrote:
PascalePC wrote:*NB.
The GRO just gave me a refund for the Edith M Jones 1923 birth record search. The mother's first name can't be Hilda....*

what was the quarter on this one and what was the surname found? did they tell you what the middle name M was for.

It was Q4. The mother’s maiden surname was definitely Hardwick, but the first name wasn’t Hilda. I didn’t check the DOB but it can’t be 31/12/1923 as surely it could only have been registered in Q1 1924 if it was, unless the birth was registered the same day. They can't tell me what the middle name is. They keep telling me I need to tell them what to search and they don't give feedback... :(
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Re: Searching for my grandmother's birth record

Postby PascalePC » Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:06 am

I'm probably mad, but as I still have no clue about my grandmother Margaret's birth record, I have complied a list to check one by one with the GRO, comprising of these subheadings:-

So I'm checking 1923 (+-2yrs)
Female baby Hardwicks, MMN Hardwick
Female baby Jones, MMN Hardwick
Female baby Margarets, MMN Hardwick
Female baby Mary, MMN Hardwick
Female baby Ediths, MMN Hardwick
Female baby Florences, MMN Hardwick
Female baby Gertrude, MMN Hardwick
Female baby Mabel, MMN Hardwick
Female baby Kate, MMN Hardwick
Female baby Alices, MMN Hardwick
Female baby Nellie/Ellen, MMN Hardwick
Female baby Annies, MMN Hardwick
Female baby Emma, MMN Hardwick
Female babies, born Hull, MMN Hardwick
Margarets born in Q1 1924 in Hull with a different MMN (check DOB 31/12/1923) in case Hilda and Reginald adopted a Margaret.

*The other names in the above sub headings are mother's, sister's and auntie's names. I can't find a record for Hilda's mum's mum to see what she was called. Hilda's mum was called Edith Mary Day (born 1864)*

It's going to take me ages as I'll just be paying, then getting a refund for each one, but I might just find something(??????) Before I check with the GRO, I need to eliminate a) the ones I've already checked, and b) ones that appear married or in census/electoral roll records elsewhere....

Does this sound like a good call?
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Re: Searching for my grandmother's birth record

Postby Northern Lass » Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:24 am

I would deffo get that marriage for George wm Sollars to Caroline and see if father is Samuel
then that would help maybe eliminate any other marriages...so you could check any likely margaret ones to a George Jones /Sollars
at least then that 1910 one can be eliminated
as you say they prob didnt marry ...

re births that Sculcoates one sort of sticks out
so she puts that on her death....so we have

Margaret
born 31-12-1923 Sculcoates is that in Hull?
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