ARC TBCPeter (Alfred Peter, Peter Alfred or Peter James)

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ARC TBCPeter (Alfred Peter, Peter Alfred or Peter James)

Postby GerryM » Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:09 am

Looking for help, guidance for information on Peter McMillan, probably born about 1852, possibly in Inverness-shire,
any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

The following is all I can find and definitely tie to him. Lots of other candidates but no connections that I can find.


Emma Jane Reeves, born in Portsmouth 24Nov1861, father George Reeves, Blockmaker H M Dockyard,
mother Jane Reeves formerly Jenkins.

Living with her family in 1871 & 1881 Census.

Peter David McMillan, born in Winchester 25Jan1885, father Peter McMillan, Painter, mother Emma McMillan formerly Reeves.

Margaret Jane McMillan, born in Blandford 6Sep1888, father Alfred Peter McMillan, Painter & Paper hanger,
mother Emma Jane McMillan formerly Reeves.

1891 Census. Lion Lodging Hostel Formby Lancashire.
Alfred P McMillan, Lodger, Married, male aged 39, Painter & Paper hanger,
born in (looks like) Gonsal Lhaire Herriel, Inverness.
Emma McMillan, Lodger, Married, female aged 30, born in Landport, Portsmouth, Hants.
Peter D McMillan, Lodger, male aged 6, born in Winchester, Hants.
Margaret J McMillan, Child, female aged 2, born in Dorsetshire, Blandford.

Harriet Kate McMillan, born in Hulme 5Jan1892, father Peter Alfred McMillan, Painter & Decorator (Journeyman),
mother Emma Jane McMillan formerly Reeves.

Jane McMillan, born in St Quivox, Ayr 3May1894, father Peter McMillan, House Painter,
mother Emma McMillan maiden surname Reeves, marriage 22Jun1887 Portsmouth.

Emma McMillan, born in Beith Ayrshire 3Jun1896, father Peter McMillan, House Painter,
mother Emma McMillan maiden surname Reeves, marriage 29Jun1884 Portsmouth.

1901 Census. 2 Providence Court, Portsmouth
Emma McMillan, Head, Widow, female aged 37, Charwoman & Hawker, born in Portsmouth, Hants.
Margaret J McMillan, Daughter, female aged 11, born in Blandford, Dorset.
Kate McMillan, Daughter, female aged 9, born in Manchester, lancs.
Jean McMillan, Daughter, Female aged 7, born in Ayr, Scotland.
Annie McMillan, Daughter, Female aged 5, born in Beith, Scotland.

Margaret Jane married Arthur George Webb on 19Mar1905 in Portsmouth. Father given as Peter James McMillan, Hawker.
Note: Father not marked as Deceased

1911 Census. 87 St Paul's Road, Southsea.
Webb Family including 3 young daughters and
Ema McMillan, Wifes Mother, female aged 49, Married 26 years, 6 children born, 5 living,
Charwoman, born in Hants, Portsmouth.
Anes McMillan, Wifes Sister, female aged 16, Single, Domestic servant, born in Beith, Ayrshire.

Questions

Who was Peter, or Alfred Peter, or Peter Alfred, or Peter James McMillan, birth, marriage,
death, censuses (or should that be censii)?

Were he and Emma really married as stated in the scottish birth records of Jane and Emma?

Death of Peter D McMillan, if, when and where?

Any information on the 6th child (mentioned in the 1911 census)?
GerryM
 
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Re: Peter (Alfred Peter, Peter Alfred or Peter James) McMill

Postby GerryM » Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:26 pm

Well this is not good, I was sort of hoping for a "Have you seen this" or "have you looked here", but I guess it's not going to be a quick fix. Any ideas anyone?
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Re: Peter (Alfred Peter, Peter Alfred or Peter James) McMill

Postby rockyfowler » Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:13 am

Questions

Who was Peter, or Alfred Peter, or Peter Alfred, or Peter James McMillan, birth, marriage,
death, censuses (or should that be censii)?

Were he and Emma really married as stated in the scottish birth records of Jane and Emma?

Death of Peter D McMillan, if, when and where?

Any information on the 6th child (mentioned in the 1911 census)?

Don`t think anyone can understand that lot :wink: Kind regards RF
“You know you’re getting old when you stoop to tie your shoelaces and wonder what else you could do while you’re down there.” ― George Burns
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Re: Peter (Alfred Peter, Peter Alfred or Peter James) McMill

Postby SRD » Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:18 am

The way you have posted the info makes forming a trail a bit more tricky, and these things take time. Don't forget you've been immersed in this for some time and so already have an overall picture, a picture that anyone here has to build up for themselves before they can offer advice.
You appear to already have access to Scottish Records and Ancestry, have you tried LDS?
Currently investigating the Hillmans of Sussex.
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Re: Peter (Alfred Peter, Peter Alfred or Peter James) McMill

Postby SRD » Tue Nov 15, 2016 11:21 am

Have you managed to discard this marriage:
Marriages Dec 1878 (>99%)
REEVES Emma Jane Portsea 2b 894
THOMAS John Portsea 2b 894
Currently investigating the Hillmans of Sussex.
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Re: Peter (Alfred Peter, Peter Alfred or Peter James) McMill

Postby GerryM » Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:20 pm

SRD

Have you managed to discard this marriage:
Marriages Dec 1878 (>99%)
REEVES Emma Jane Portsea 2b 894
THOMAS John Portsea 2b 894


Fathers name for the above is quoted as Jeremiah Reeves, and her age as "full". Her father (from her birth certificate) is George and in 1878 she'd have been 17 (I know she could have lied but it adds weight). She is also still listed a single and living with her family on the 1881 census.

I do use LDS but generally don't if there are other sources that cover the area of interest. Have looked for Peter McMillan on LDS, because the probable date of his birth is before Scottish compulsory registration, but either get too many positives with no way of selecting or a few that are easily rejected. Willing to go through it again if wiser heads can point me in the right direction. I've also spent some time checking Irish records as there are Irish McMillans and the 1891 census birth location (Gonsal Lhaire Inverness if I'm reading it right) looks more like Irish Gaelic than Scots to me (and my guess at Inverness could easily be wrong).

I think the real problem, for me at least, is that all I have is his occupation and variable name on a series of birth certificates and one census entry.

Apologies for the rambling in the original question, I did write several drafts to try and make it more concise, but failed. It wasn't a simple story.
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Re: Peter (Alfred Peter, Peter Alfred or Peter James) McMill

Postby SRD » Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:04 am

There's an Ancestry Tree, Marley&more, that suggests a marriage:
22-Jun-1887 - Portsmouth, Hampshire, England
But the link keeps coming up as unavailable so i can find no further info, the tree has probably been taken down.
Currently investigating the Hillmans of Sussex.
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Re: Peter (Alfred Peter, Peter Alfred or Peter James) McMill

Postby GerryM » Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:09 am

That tree is mine, and the date is one of dates given on his daughters' birth certificates.
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Re: Peter (Alfred Peter, Peter Alfred or Peter James) McMill

Postby SRD » Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:59 am

In which case it looks like you've covered all the bases available to me.
Incidentally, have you removed that tree or is there another reason it's not coming up?

I'm somewhat perplexed by a the idea of a house painter/decorator making so many moves and living in so many places, not so unusual for an itinerant hawker maybe but there may be other reasons, have you looked at criminal records?
Currently investigating the Hillmans of Sussex.
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Re: Peter (Alfred Peter, Peter Alfred or Peter James) McMill

Postby GerryM » Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:06 am

I have looked at criminal records whenever they've come up but not a systematic search. Wouldn't know how or where to start that.

One complication is his forename(s). I have it on 6 documents, 5 birth certificates and a census. Different on every one. Just makes searching more difficult and produces more results if I make the name flexible. Just searching for Peter McMillan, born 1852 in Scotland gives nearly a thousand hits.

In 1901, when he was no longer around, his "wife" is listed on the census as a "Charwoman & Hawker". I had assumed that he wasn't a professional House Painter or Decorator because professionals would normally state (Journeyman) or similar. I'd therefore assumed (possibly incorrectly) that he was a traveler that offered house painting.

Incidentally I recently came across some McMillans in St Quivox, Ayr in the 1881 census. The address was Cross Street (No 98 I think). His daughter Jane was born at 6 Cross Street in 1894. Couldn't find any connections so probably just a coincidence, but did make me think.

I have no idea why you are having problems with Marley&more, I can look at it without problems from here. I keep my research and tree locally on Family Tree Maker, the ancestry tree is just to make the information available, I synch it from FTM whenever I make changes.
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Re: Peter (Alfred Peter, Peter Alfred or Peter James) McMill

Postby Maybelle L » Thu May 18, 2017 11:38 pm

Jane aka Jean aka Jennie McMillan is my great-grandmother. My family has whispered for years that she was born in a Traveller family. I believe that her mother, Emma, ran away with Peter McMillan. It would not surprise me if they were not married but they might have been. My family always maintained that Peter McMillan was Scottish but I believe he was an Irish Traveller based upon my DNA results. By the time my grandmother lived with Emma (during the First World War), Peter was not around. I suspect Emma left him and returned to Portsmouth and said she was a widow but perhaps he was dead. If he was a Traveller, as I believe, it will be difficult to figure out any details about him.
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Re: Peter (Alfred Peter, Peter Alfred or Peter James) McMill

Postby Maybelle L » Sat May 20, 2017 11:03 am

I should have added that, about 20 years ago, I corresponded with a descendant of the other McMIllans on Cross St. in Ayr and we could not come up with any connection beyond the shared surname and street.
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Re: Peter (Alfred Peter, Peter Alfred or Peter James) McMill

Postby GerryM » Wed May 24, 2017 6:05 pm

Thanks for that Maybelle, I had also concluded that he was probably a Traveller. It would have been good to find out for sure, and especially figure out where he had come from. My wife is a great grand-daughter of Margaret McMillan,the eldest daughter. My wife's grandmother Jessie Webb was 5 years old in 1911 and at that time Emma and the youngest daughter (also Emma) were living with the Webb family according to the 1911 census.

I have quite a lot of information about Margaret, including a photograph or 2. I have looked at the records of Harriet (usually known as Kate) and Emma and their families, so I know the basics of their stories. I have very little about Jane apart from her birth record and the 1891, 1901 and 1911 censuses. Their brother Peter disappears after the 1891 census, I haven't found his death or anything else. I'd appreciate anything you are willing to share with me about any of them.

If any of the records or information I have would be of use to you, please let me know.
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Re: Peter (Alfred Peter, Peter Alfred or Peter James) McMill

Postby Maybelle L » Thu May 25, 2017 1:17 am

I knew my great-grandmother but did not speak to her about her family. The names Margaret and Kate seem familiar but they are not uncommon. I do not recognize the name Webb. My grandmother never spoke about an uncle. I thought that one part of the family went to South Africa and another part to Australia but I am not sure. My grandmother corresponded with a woman in Australia whom she called her cousin and there are a number of photos of people in places that appear warmer than where we are.

I can recall only one story about Emma Reeves McMillan. My grandmother told me that her grandmother once saved up her pennies and bought an orange for each of the kids (all of the grandchildren?) for Christmas. She could only afford damaged fruit but the kids were delighted. I have no doubt that Emma's life was very hard but I thought that was a lovely story.

There is one other story I recall of an aunt who was a charwoman who always made some joke about washing some famous lady's face every day. I believe it was a marble likeness of someone that was sitting on a mantle in a house that this aunt cleaned.

Peter McMillan was named on my great-grandmother's marriage certificate. I cannot make out the date of her marriage but it says she was 19 years of age. Her address was listed as 13 Blenheim ? in Portsmouth ?. Her husband, Albert George Allen, who ended up in the 3rd Welsh Regiment, died in Redcar in January 1919 and was buried in Portsmouth. My great-grandmother remarried and called herself Jean Gifford. She left in 1925 for Canada with her new husband and her three children from her first marriage. She went back and forth to England and finally died in Trenton, Ontario in 1975.

I am confident that Peter McMillan was an Irish Traveller. It was always said that my great-grandmother's inability to settle down was because she was a "gypsy" and that we were the kind of family who went from town to town in a horse-drawn wagon. The history that you have put together confirms what I have been told since I was a child.

I would be pleased to have any other details about Emma and Peter and their children. I wish I could offer more information but I did not pay much attention as the lives of these people were so different than my own. Also, my grandmother, like many immigrants, focussed on the future, not the past.
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Re: Peter (Alfred Peter, Peter Alfred or Peter James) McMill

Postby GerryM » Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:35 am

Maybelle, Private Message sent.

Gerry
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