ARC TBC Starting again

[freccle]

Whilst not a newcomer to genealogy, I haven't really done anything with my tree for about 12 years and I'm finding it hard to remember the procedure for a lot of searches - plus I'm now on a pension and don't have the money to spare that I had a few years ago.
On my mothers side I got back to 1776 relatively easily - they were all big families and the family was well know in the Birmingham area but on my fathers side I haven't even got his mother with any certainty. Which is why I lost interest and why I was waiting for the 1921 census to see if I could fine anything on that.
However the release of the 1939 register has sparked my interest again so I thought I'd post my story again.
As briefly as I can - my dad was born John Kitchen on 1st Sept 1914 to an Isabel Kitchen in a mother and baby home in Leeds. No father on the birth cert and no date of birth for the mother.
Isabel was listed as being in service in Penrith.
My dad had no bothers or sisters (that I knew of or that he mentioned). He hardly ever talked about his past but he always referred to Penrith as his home. He wasn't adopted but was brought up by a Mrs Bell and went to school in Penrith. If he talked about his childhood at all it was being brought up on a farm
Unfortunately all the records from the only school he would have been likely to have gone to were destroyed by fire and also all record of the mother and baby home in Leeds were destroyed prior to 1935 (it stayed open until
the 50's). My mother, now of course dead, seemed not to find it strange that he had no family at their wedding and did not have a clue what he did during the war. In fact as a source of information, it was like talking to a wet sock lol
Kitchen is a very popular name in Cumbria (and it seems the vast majority of the female one seem to be called Isabel) so there were various options for Isabel, ranging from one born in 1889 to one born in 1900. I ended up spending a small fortune on certs, none of which were the correct Isabel.
The 1889 one married in 1912 and at first I thought maybe she'd got pregnant whilst her husband was away at war but when she conceived (Christmas / New Year 1913/14) her husband wouldn't have been away and they had another son in 1918 so didn't split up, so it's unlikely to be her

Which leaves me back with the 14 year old. I'd previously discounted this one because of her age. Is a 13 year old likely to have gone into service then? Maybe she was "taken advantage of" and shipped off to the mother and baby home to avoid the scandal although she obviously brought the baby back with her although I can find no record of a baptism. My dad was brought up with another boy, whom he remained close to until he died, called Jack Savage. Jack's wife said everyone assumed they were brothers although they definitely weren't. Is there any way I can check her actual date of birth without forking out for another cert? (I have the GRO ref) Because also I can find no record of her marriage or death either
Anyway back to my dad, I can find absolutely NO war records for him at all. In fact there are only about 6 J Kitchen (he definitely didn't have a middle name) and previously when I have checked, there are none that match his date of birth
Until the 1939 register I assumed that, if he was working on a farm, he perhaps would have been exempt from Military Service, hence no records.
However 1939 shows him at Platt Lane in Manchester with a much older Doreen Montcrieff (states married but no husband on register) and working as a hotel/bar waiter. Now I remember Doreen - she was his landlady and he kept in close touch with her until he died and he sometimes used to take me to visit her
When did electoral rolls start - would there be any way for me to find out if he was still living there say 4 years later or any way to find out what he was doing. It wasn't the address given on his marriage cert to my mum but I think the address on that was only used because of the banns (it was round the corner from my mum).
What way is there of finding out what people did during the war if they weren't in the services? Are there records kept of conscription etc. If he didn't serve because of health reasons I have no idea what they were as my dad was the healthiest person I knew until he got cancer at 73. There was only two sheets of paper in his doctors file!
Sorry, so much for keeping it brief.
Anyone got any suggestions as to where I can look next and what my next actions should be?

[rockyfowler]

From FMP
1939 REGISTER TRANSCRIPTION (PREVIEW)
Kitchen Household
Leeds C.B., Yorkshire (West Riding), England
FIRST NAME(S) LAST NAME(S) BIRTH YEAR
Isabella Kitchen 1881
Lilian Derham is also on this record
1 more person who is officially closed

[freccle]

Thank you but I'm pretty sure Isabel didn't come from Leeds - all connections with the family (apart from the mother and baby home) link to Penrith or Whitehaven

[rockyfowler]

When did electoral rolls start - would there be any way for me to find out if he was still living there say 4 years later or any way to find out what he was doing.

The Electrol rolls started again in Aug 1945 these will be kept at the local Archives Best RF

[freccle]

Thank you. so if I went to Manchester town hall I should be able to look through the electroal roll for 1945 and onwards?

[rockyfowler]

these will be kept at the local Archives Best RF

http://www.manchester.gov.uk/info/448/a ... _catalogue
cords 96 ListLightboxDetailsview full collection
Electoral registers since 1832 and Burgess Rolls
Category: Local Studies
Held By:
Bolton Archives and Local Studies
Identifier: GB125.324.24 (1872094104)
Identifier 2:
1872094104
Date: 1990
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Electoral Registers 1832-1948;and Burgess Rolls:a directory to holdings in Great Britain. 3rd ed
Category: Local Studies
Held By:
Bolton Archives and Local Studies
Identifier: GB125.324.24 (M0024613BT)
Identifier 2:
M0024613BT
Creator or Author:
Gibson, Jeremy
Date: 2008
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Bolton Electoral Registers 1838 to date : including Burgess Rolls 1838 - 1914 and Parliamentary Voters Lists 1868 -1914, 1919- 1939, 1945 to d ate
Category: Local Studies
Held By:
Bolton Archives and Local Studies
Identifier: GB125.901 (M0006516B)
Identifier 2:
M0006516B
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Street Index volumes for the Electoral Rolls,1981 to date.
Category: Local Studies
Held By:
Bolton Archives and Local Studies
Identifier: GB125.901 (k2658301)
Identifier 2:
k2658301
Creator or Author:
Bolton Metropolitan Borough
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Electoral Registers
Category: Archive
Held By:
Bury Archives and Local Studies
Identifier: GB126.ABU/1/4/3
Date: 1926-1973
Level: SubSeries
Description: From 1918 anyone with the franchise could vote in both municipal and parliamentary elections and the separate parliamentary registers and burgess rolls were combined to form the Electoral Register. Boundaries of the parliamentary borough could be different from those of the municipal borough however, from 1926-1930 registers include Tottington, from 1932-1947 the registers include Tottington and Unsworth. After 1950 the parliamentary constituency of Bury and Radcliffe also includes Ainsworth and Tottington.
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- See more at: http://www.gmlives.org.uk/results.html?#imu[rid=ecatalogue.401763]

[MattFletcher]

Which leaves me back with the 14 year old. I'd previously discounted this one because of her age. Is a 13 year old likely to have gone into service then? Maybe she was "taken advantage of" and shipped off to the mother and baby home to avoid the scandal although she obviously brought the baby back with her although I can find no record of a baptism. ?

Definitely. It's grim oop north. If this is your grandmother then her older sister was already in service aged 14. Some clergymen wouldn't baptize children of unmarried mothers

John Jenkinson Kitchen Head Married Male Coal Miner Deputy Below Ground 47 1864 Cumberalnd Lamplugh
Isabella Kitchen Wife Married Female - 45 1866 Cumberland Ennerdale
John Kitchen Son Single Male Colliery Labourer Below Ground 16 1895 Cumberland Distington
Jane Kitchen Daughter - Female General Servant Domestic 14 1897 Cumberland Distington
Isabell Kitchen Daughter - Female School 10 1901 Cumberland Whitehaven
Anthony Kitchen Son - Male School 8 1903 Cumberland Whitehaven
Sarah Ann Kitchen Daughter - Female - 1 1910 Cumberland Whitehaven
[The birth years are calculated as (1911 - age) so they can be off by one]

I'm not sure of the rules here on uploading images which are technically copyright but I will certainly get you a copy (it's behind the findmypast paywall)

Edit:
She's on the 1901 census too but their name is recorded as Kitchin. Her age is 11 months (on 31 March 1901) which implies a birth in April 1900. Her
name is also Isabell on the 1901 census and her mother's is Isabella (as above in 1911). I know the GRO birth record has Isabel.

Matt

[MattFletcher]

One thing puzzles me - and I'm only asking this to make sure I have the right John Kitchen, not nit-picking your post - is that your father appears to have died aged 70 yet you said he got cancer at 73.

England and Wales Death Registration Index 1837-2007
Name John Kitchen
Event Type Death Registration
Registration Quarter Apr-May-Jun
Registration Year 1985
Registration District Stockport
County Lancashire
Event Place Stockport, Lancashire, England
Birth Date (available after June quarter 1969) 01 Sep 1914
Volume 39
Page 1050

[freccle]

My apologies - of course I've got my dad's death cert but for some unknown reason I always thought he was 73 but he was only 70! He died on 15th May 1985 and was cremated on 21st May 1985.

[freccle]

I saw her sister was in domestic service but then she was at home at the time of the census so it didn't look as if she went away to work, like Isabel would have had to if her address was listed as Penrith at the birth. And yet he was born at 22 Brunswick Place Leeds which was St Faith's Rescue Home for women. there are very few records that I can find about St Faiths but I tend to get the feeling it was for special cases - ie very young mothers. I have no idea how it was funded.

Thanks for help by the way

[MattFletcher]

Maybe they moved to Penrith. Unfortunately I think you might have to wait until 2021 for many of these questions to be answered. Here are the relevant images from the censuses - although I don't think they'll tell you anything you don't already know.

21, South Row Kells, Whitehaven, Cumberland for both

kitchen1901.JPG (106.43 KiB) Viewed 2102 times

kitchen1911.JPG (122.75 KiB) Viewed 2102 times

[freccle]

Thanks so much. think I'll look up the sister - see if she had any children before marriage or if she married early on. You never know, my dad might have lived with her. Iasabel is listed as working as working as a Domestic servant, Sandgate Penrith RD

[gardener]

However 1939 shows him at Platt Lane in Manchester with a much older Doreen Montcrieff (states married but no husband on register) and working as a hotel/bar waiter. Now I remember Doreen - she was his landlady and he kept in close touch with her until he died and he sometimes used to take me to visit her

I don't think it will lead anywhere, but just in case it helps locating things in the electoral roles:

Doreen Moncrieff (140 Platt Lane Rusholme) died in 1965 and the probate entry gives Delaney as an alternative surname. She left over 1000 pounds and administration was granted to Doreen Lilian Delaney (spinster).

[freccle]

Oh thank you for that. I remember Doreen dying and my dad went to her funeral. I don't think my mum was very happy at him going but it was all talked about in hushed whispers a they didn't think it was suitable for my 10 year old self to hear!

[snoopysue]

May be a daft question, but do you have your parents marriage certificate - it may or may not name his father?