CLOSED Richard Dawes b Est 1852 Tewin Herts

[Peter080249]

Can anyone please help me to trace the above person, I can do it back to 1871. Prior to that he disappears from the radar. His daughter Alice was my maternal grandma.

So far:

1911 census Richard 59 & wife Emma 57 in Swanley Kent with 1 kid
1901 census Richard 49 & Emma 48 at Wilmington Kent + 3 kids
1891 census Richard 38 & Emma 37 at North Cray Kent +8 kids
1881 census Richard 28 & emma 27 at Tewin Herts +5 kids ( in this census the name was registered as Daws and he put a "W" before Richard ie W Richard Daws (see later)
1871 census Richard 18 & Emma 17 at Tewin Herts

1870 marriage gro for Richard Dawes & Emma Ray

1861 census Emmas Ray aged 7
but absolutely no trace of Richard Dawes 8 for 1861!!!!!

I did find a birth gro for a William Richard Dawes for Q Jun 1852 for Hertford (see note for 1881 census above.

I have checked my tracking using the ages of the kids and they appear to be Ok with the exception of a couple who drop from the radar.

I have tried everthing that I can think of. Any ideas please.

Regards

Peter

[Maths girl]

What did he give as his place of birth on the various census? as this might help to confirm that possible birth in Hertford and a place to for in the 1861 census.

HAve you got/seen a copy of the marriage certificate - who were the witnesses as they may have been brothers/sisters
What name does it give for his father/occupation etc as that could help to search the 1861 census? ie find the family and see where the son is

[peterd]

peter as maths girl mentioned the wedding cert is your next stage if you dont have it you need to obtain the cert or poss look it up if you live local

[tobytwo]

Can anyone please help me to trace the above person, I can do it back to 1871. Prior to that he disappears from the radar. His daughter Alice was my maternal grandma.

So far:

1911 census Richard 59 & wife Emma 57 in Swanley Kent with 1 kid
1901 census Richard 49 & Emma 48 at Wilmington Kent + 3 kids
1891 census Richard 38 & Emma 37 at North Cray Kent +8 kids
1881 census Richard 28 & emma 27 at Tewin Herts +5 kids ( in this census the name was registered as Daws and he put a "W" before Richard ie W Richard Daws (see later)
1871 census Richard 18 & Emma 17 at Tewin Herts

1870 marriage gro for Richard Dawes & Emma Ray

1861 census Emmas Ray aged 7
but absolutely no trace of Richard Dawes 8 for 1861!!!!!



I did find a birth gro for a William Richard Dawes for Q Jun 1852 for Hertford (see note for 1881 census above.

I have checked my tracking using the ages of the kids and they appear to be Ok with the exception of a couple who drop from the radar.

I have tried everthing that I can think of. Any ideas please.

Regards

Peter

Hi Peter

I have found on Ancestry a Richard Dause b 1853 Elstree Hertfordshire it looks like it is a spelling error.

TT

[gardener]

Hi Peter

I have found on Ancestry a Richard Dause b 1853 Elstree Hertfordshire it looks like it is a spelling error.

TT

Sorry, but that Richard seems to be still at home in 1871, aged 17

[cid]

Hi

It could well be that he is the William R Dawes that you found on BMD index in 1852. A few of my ancestors have used their middle names on marriage certs / census info. You may have to send for birth/marriage and death certs to be sure.

There is a death listed for a William R Dawes in March 1/4 1927 aged 74 in Dartford (2a 113), don't know if that ties in with the death of your Richard Dawes.

Cid

[gardener]

I offer this as a possibility but like they all say you need the wedding cert for Richard and Emma

1861
Tewin
James Presland m 26 labourer Tewin
Eliza ditto wife 35 Distock?
Wm Richd ditto son 9 Tewin
Martha ditto dau 6 Tewin
Jane ditto dau 3 Tewin
William ditto son 2m Tewin

Note: James' surname all over the place in transcriptions
1861 Presland
1871 Purling (on previous page to Richard Dawes)
1881 Pressling


Marriage possibility Eliza Dawes to James Presling sep qtr 1857 Hertford


Baptism
William Richard Dawes 7 Apr 1861 mother Eliza Dawes
William James Presling 7 Apr 1861 parents James and Eliza Presling
Jane Presling 4 July 1858 ditto
Rose Matilda Presling 7 Aug 1864 ditto
George Presling 4 Nov 1866 ditto


Jane Pressling born Jun qtr 1858 Hertford
Rose Matilda Presland born Sep qtr 1863 Hertford


PS Martha may be down as Martha H Daws agewd 16 servant born Tewin, in the 1871 census

[Peter080249]

wow! what can I say but a big thanks, it has certainly given me something to look at.

I did send away for the birth and marriage certificates. I don't know about anyone else but these seem to be taking about 3 to 4 weeks to come through rather than the average 1 week a few months ago. I dont know if this is because of the postal workers actions. I have also been waiting over a month for a document from Fraser & Fraser (heir Hunters series) for over a month now.

Anyway, once again thanks a lot guys ( and gals of course)

Regards

Peter

[gardener]

Oh good! Then you can tell us what they say and see if we need to look a bit harder

[Peter080249]

Hi

It could well be that he is the William R Dawes that you found on BMD index in 1852. A few of my ancestors have used their middle names on marriage certs / census info. You may have to send for birth/marriage and death certs to be sure.

There is a death listed for a William R Dawes in March 1/4 1927 aged 74 in Dartford (2a 113), don't know if that ties in with the death of your Richard Dawes.

Cid

I think that you are right and it is the case that he didn't like his first name, or maybe his parents didn't. Mine christened me Peter and then for the rest of my life called me Bob!

Thanks for the info on the death, I will look into that one as it does sound like him.

Feels like time for a GINealogy and tonic!

regards

Peter

[Peter080249]

I offer this as a possibility but like they all say you need the wedding cert for Richard and Emma

1861
Tewin
James Presland m 26 labourer Tewin
Eliza ditto wife 35 Distock?
Wm Richd ditto son 9 Tewin
Martha ditto dau 6 Tewin
Jane ditto dau 3 Tewin
William ditto son 2m Tewin



Marriage possibility Eliza Dawes to James Presling sep qtr 1857 Hertford

Hi Gardener, that one looked really positive. And then! I checked for Eliza Dawes in the 1851 census and found her (I think) she is the daughter of Isaac Dawes of Tewin. So Dawes seems to be her maiden rather than married name. This doesn't mean that she couldn't have married another Dawes so i think that I might have to wait for the certificates. The 9 year old son, for a man of 25 does seem a bit curious though. I think that her place of birth is Digswell which is now a suburb of Welwyn Gdn City.

I weill keep you posted when I get the certs.

Regards

Peter - now definitely going for a GINealogy and Tonic!

[gardener]

Hi
I was thinking that if it hangs together then Eliza probably had William Richard and Martha before marrying anyone. Then married that James Presling/land. So in the 1861 census William Richard is down with his stepfather's name but later married under his real name ie his mother's surname.
So William Richard baptised late but on the same day as his half brother.
But it is a work of fiction until you get the certificates, I admit that They are bound to turn up soon if it is 3 or 4 weeks since you ordered them.

[Maths girl]

I did send away for the birth and marriage certificates. I don't know about anyone else but these seem to be taking about 3 to 4 weeks to come through rather than the average 1 week a few months ago. I dont know if this is because of the postal workers actions.
Peter

Another alternative for slow delivery is that Who Do You Think You Are? has just been on TV again -I remember this caused a surge of requests last year that meant the certificates were slower coming at that time -add in postal strikes and....

[Peter080249]

Hi all,

Well the certificates arrived and it looks as though suspicions have been confirmed, well done Gardener!

The birth certificate for William Richard Dawes shows Eliza Dawes as the mother with no maiden name and there is no mention of the father on the document.

His marriage certificate to Emma Ray shows a James Prefoley as the father but I cannot find any trace of him. With the mixup with Pressland and the other names it is quite likely that this one is incorrect as both William and James signed the certificate with an "X". If they can't write then they almost certainly couldn't spell.

Anyway thanks for the help.

Oh! , there is one other little thing. In the column on the side of the birth certificate the registrar has written " Have N H C". Has anybody any idea of what an NHC is?

Regards

Peter