COMPLETED - William Edward Hillman & Ida Carchrie Clarke

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COMPLETED - William Edward Hillman & Ida Carchrie Clarke

Postby SRD » Thu Feb 13, 2014 8:40 am

Or is it?
I have a William Edward Hillman b 1888 to Abraham & Lucy Laura in Cuckfield Sussex.

There are records at the National Archive (which financial constraints bar me from getting) dated 1904 which is presumably when he signed up for the Royal Navy aged 16.

There are consecutive census records including 1911 when he was on board HMS Otter in dock in Kowloon Harbour.

His WWI medals were delivered to HMS Excellent which was a shore establishment in Portsmouth.

There is a possible marriage, in Cuckfield, to an Ida C Clarke in 1914.

There is a 1978 death record, in Cuckfield, for an Ida Carchrie Hillman b. 24 May 1893.

There is a 1911 census for an Ida Carchrie Clarke b 1897 in Dublin, Ireland living with an Uncle & Aunt in Liverpool.

There are the births of 4 Children, Alan W C Hillman (mother Clarke) b 1914, Audrey J Hillman (mother Clarke) b 1923, Irene M Hillman (mother Clarke) b 1925 & Stella M Hillman (mother Clarke) b 1927, all in Portsmouth.

I know this isn't definitive proof of relationships and wondered if anyone could find any further information that might show one way or the other that William Edward and Ida Carchrie really were husband and wife or not.
Last edited by SRD on Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: William Edward Hillman & Ida Carchrie Clarke

Postby MarkCDodd » Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:52 am

Ida's family ended up in Australia!
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Re: William Edward Hillman & Ida Carchrie Clarke

Postby MarkCDodd » Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:58 am

I have found photographs of Ida, her mother, her sister in law, her kids but not one of her husband. Seems the Clarkes in Australia do not know much about Ida (whose rel name is Eliza apparently).
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Re: William Edward Hillman & Ida Carchrie Clarke

Postby MarkCDodd » Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:07 am

Mary Ann Clarke and six of her children (George, William, Leigh, Victor, Harry and Florence) made the journey from London to Brisbane on the ship "Oswestry Grange", arriving in Brisbane on 12 March 1911.

Her husband William Clarke and oldest child Eliza (known as Ida) did not accompany them on this journey.

The journey on Oswestry Grange is thought to have been a difficult one. Substandard conditions on the second voyage the ship made transporting migrants to Australia that year (the Clarkes were on the first voyage that year) resulted in petitioning by immigrants about the conditions.
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Re: William Edward Hillman & Ida Carchrie Clarke

Postby SRD » Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:21 am

Thanks Mark, I'll see if I can find the 1901 census for the family.
I think one of the 'Smart Matches' from Family Tree Builder linked to Aus but the records didn't match what I have for Ida. Presumably, from the 1911 census I have, Ida's mother was a Carchrie. If that record is accurate they came from Scotland originally. I'll see if I can find the Clarke/Carchrie marriage.
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Re: William Edward Hillman & Ida Carchrie Clarke

Postby MarkCDodd » Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:24 am

Looks like her family was spread all over the place in the census. Some of her siblings were born in workhouses. Two of her sibling have Carchrie Clarke in their name.
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Re: William Edward Hillman & Ida Carchrie Clarke

Postby SRD » Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:34 am

Thanks again, it looks like a broken family, where's the father in 1901 & 1911?

Mind you I'm always a little wary of families where descendants say that the name was really this rather than that on the official records; I've had three instances where the name on the official documents was correct and the research by the descendants was at fault and not one the other way round.
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Re: William Edward Hillman & Ida Carchrie Clarke

Postby SRD » Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:54 am

Further to that, Mark; is your info from the Ancestry boards thread http://boards.ancestrylibrary.com/localities.britisles.england.sry.general/9525/mb.ashx? I can't access the tree or proofs as it's on Aussie ancestry and I don't have access.
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Re: William Edward Hillman & Ida Carchrie Clarke

Postby MarkCDodd » Sat Feb 15, 2014 2:02 pm

Ancestry trees are on all the servers. I buy my subscription from the UK server as they are cheaper but the information is exactly the same if you buy a world package.

When I get a chance I will have a look at some of their sources and post them here.
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Re: William Edward Hillman & Ida Carchrie Clarke

Postby SRD » Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:37 pm

This is looking even more tricky than I thought.

I think I've found the family of Annie that Ida was living with in 1911, they are father David Graham born around 1816 in Burgh by Sands, Cumberland and mother Mary born around 1819 in Longtown, Cumberland.

There are family census records showing ten children and three grandchildren living with David & Mary from 1841 - 1881 (unfortunately the grandchildren aren't linked to any particular one of the children).

Mary died somewhere between 1881 & 1891 when David goes to live with his daughter Annie and son-in-law George Carchrie, he's with them in 1891 & 1901 and probably died in 1905.

According to the 1911 census George & Annie had no children, but the 1901 census shows them as having a daughter, Eliza, aged 7 born in Liverpool.

But I can see no obvious reason why any of the Clarke children should carry the name Carchrie.
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Re: William Edward Hillman & Ida Carchrie Clarke

Postby grangers14 » Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:41 pm

? Perhaps she was adopted by them? It might be an idea to contact that person and see what they think? May be getting the marriage cert? Seems an odd one though :?
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Re: William Edward Hillman & Ida Carchrie Clarke

Postby SRD » Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:09 pm

I think I'm missing a generation.
The 1911 census shows Annie Carchrie as being 60, if she's the daughter of David & Mary her birth was in 1846 which means that her older sister Mary b. 1844 can't be the Mary Ann who sailed for Australia in 1911 aged 38, so Ida was probably Annie's great niece, not niece.
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Re: William Edward Hillman & Ida Carchrie Clarke

Postby SRD » Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:57 pm

:o I don't know what service George Carchrie did the family but I've just discovered another George Carchrie Graham b 1902 who is a cousin to Ida & George.
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Re: William Edward Hillman & Ida Carchrie Clarke

Postby tanyaallen » Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:10 am

Hi, I'm Tanya - ancestor of the Clarke's in Australia.

Ida Carchrie Clarke is my great great aunt. My great grandmother is her youngest sister Florence Graham Clarke.

If you are subscribed to ancestry.com, please visit my family tree, as I have a lot of information and family photographs inherited from the Clarkes. Ida was loved immensely by my great grandmother - they kept in regular contact and Ida sent many photographs of her and her children. These were kept by my grandmother and are in my family tree.
http://trees.ancestry.com.au/tree/40839404/family

From what I understand, David is the family patriarch, and the father of George Cecerlia Clarke (Mary Ann's father) and Annie Clarke (married to George Carchrie).
George Carchrie was a publican in Liverpool and must have been an all-round great man, as several of the following generations are named after him. We now know that Mary Ann lived with the Carchries when she was young, and that Ida also lived with them when she was 17. My grandmother has always maintained that Ida's name was "Eliza" so it is possible that they were childless and essentially foster parents to Ida. However, the 1901 census lists Eliza Carchrie (roughly the same age as Eliza) as their daughter.

I have been trying to trace what happened to Ida for at least a year, as her family in Australia lost contact with her around the start of WW2, and to the best of my knowledge never heard from her again. It is my grandmother's understanding that as they were not in contact she would not have known about family members (including my great grandmother) passing. I have both William and Mary Ann's death certificates and there is uncertainty on them as to whether Ida was alive. My grandmother has believed for years that she must have been killed in air raids during the war, but I have only just found that she lived to a ripe old age!

I would like to make contact with Ida's descendants to share the family photographs and stories. I realise that Ida's children may have all passed by now, but I would be pleased to make contact with a grandchild or great grandchild.
Ida and kids.jpg
Ida and kids
Ida and kids.jpg (39.31 KiB) Viewed 3205 times

Clarke Graham Family Tree compressed.jpg
Clarke Graham Family Tree
Clarke Graham Family Tree compressed.jpg (124.99 KiB) Viewed 3205 times


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Re: William Edward Hillman & Ida Carchrie Clarke

Postby SRD » Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:47 am

Hi Tanya
To be honest I've pretty much washed my hands of Ida's family :lol: trying to follow the various lines of legitimate/illegitimate/adopted/borrowed/lent/taken/left behind and much giving of inaccurate evidence to officialdom in what is only an offshoot of my main lines of investigation was distracting me from my project.

If it's alright with you I'll just leave notes in my tree to point people towards your research.
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