Astley? Warwickshire - Worcestershire? - COMPLETED

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Astley? Warwickshire - Worcestershire? - COMPLETED

Postby descartes46 » Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:34 pm

Hi All,

Trying to find baptism etc for my ancestor Ann (K)nott b. 1817 wife of Joseph BAKER (1815-1888). She shows up on the 1951 census as being born in Worcestershire.

Been trying to find her on ancestry and on familysearch.org. . . the only Ann (K)nott even remotely close is:

name: Ann Knott
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 13 Jul 1817
baptism/christening place: ASTLEY,WARWICK,ENGLAND

Don't know my Midlands geography very well, but was wondering if perhaps the county boundaries have changed since then and this could be the correct Ann I'm looking for?

Darren
Last edited by descartes46 on Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Astley? Warwickshire - Worcestershire?

Postby mallosa » Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:13 pm

I think you mean 1851 Census? :wink:

Does this help?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astley,_Worcestershire
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Re: Astley? Warwickshire - Worcestershire?

Postby linell » Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:14 pm

There's an Astley both in Warks and Worcs Darren.

HTH Linell.
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Re: Astley? Warwickshire - Worcestershire?

Postby MarkCDodd » Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:16 pm

If you have a look at the Parish Register they are living at Chilvers Coton. The Bishops transcripts for Chilvers Coton post 1833 are kept in the Worcestershire archives. Pre 1833 they are at the Lichfield archives.

I doubt very much you could mistake your place of birth as Worcestershire if born at Chilvers Coton.

As part of Nuneaton it is close to Leicestershire.
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Re: Astley? Warwickshire - Worcestershire?

Postby MarkCDodd » Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:42 pm

Joseph is married to a Maria in the 1861 census.

The youngest child on that census was born 1854.

name: Arthur Samuel Baker
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 31 Dec 1854
baptism/christening place: Claines, Worcester, England
birth date:
birthplace:
death date:
name note:
race:
father's name: Joseph Baker
father's birthplace:
father's age:
mother's name: Ann Baker
mother's birthplace:
mother's age:
indexing project (batch) number: C02068-2
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 367809
reference number: P-131 No.1047

So Ann died between 1854 and 1861. Do you know how many Ann Bakers there are!!!

Narrowing it down, this is Joseph's second marriage.

groom's name: Joseph Baker
groom's birth date:
groom's birthplace:
groom's age:
bride's name: Maria Torrence
bride's birth date:
bride's birthplace:
bride's age:
marriage date: 14 Jul 1856
marriage place: Whittington,Worcester,England
groom's father's name:
groom's mother's name:
bride's father's name:
bride's mother's name:
groom's race:
groom's marital status:
groom's previous wife's name:
bride's race:
bride's marital status:
bride's previous husband's name:
indexing project (batch) number: M04621-2
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 435354
reference number:

So this would be Ann's funeral service.

name: Ann Baker
gender: Female
burial date: 30 Jul 1855
burial place: Claines, Worcester, England
death date:
death place:
age:
birth date:
birthplace:
occupation:
race:
marital status:
spouse's name:
father's name:
father's birthplace:
mother's name:
mother's birthplace:
indexing project (batch) number: I04478-1
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 350631
reference number: item 4

According to the National Burial Index she was interred at St George, Worcester. Her age confirms the 1817 birth year.

Parish Records Collection 1538-2005 - Burial

First name(s): Ann
Last name BAKER
Date of burial: 30 Jul 1855
Age at death: 38
Calculated year of birth: 1817
Place of burial: Worcester
Dedication: St George
County: Worcestershire
Notes:
Worcester St George
Denomination: Anglican
Coverage: 1834 - 1880
Number of entries 2,425
Record source: National Burial Index
Data provider: Birmingham and Midland Society for Genealogy and Heraldry
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Re: Astley? Warwickshire - Worcestershire?

Postby MarkCDodd » Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:04 am

On the 1861 census you can see that Maria is a lot younger than Joseph. She is dead by 1871.

1861 census transcription details for: Sheepwash Lane, Tipton

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG09
Piece: 2044
Folio: 107
Page: 3
Reg. District: Dudley
Sub District: 2 Tipton
Parish: Tipton
Enum. District: 21
Ecclesiastical District: St Martins
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: Sheepwash Lane, Tipton
County: Staffordshire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
BAKER, Joseph Head Married M 45 1816 Paviour Lichfield, Staffordshire
BAKER, Maria Wife Married F 34 1827 Laundress Worcester
BAKER, Theresa Daughter Unmarried F 15 1846 Domestic Servant Worcester
BAKER, Joseph Son Unmarried M 13 1848 Labourer At Water Work Worcester
BAKER, Allice Daughter Unmarried F 9 1852 Scholar Worcester
BAKER, Arthur Son Unmarried M 7 1844 Scholar Worcester

Buried in the same cemetery as Ann.

Parish Records Collection 1538-2005 - Burial

First name(s): Maria
Last name BAKER
Date of burial: 26 Mar 1869
Age at death: 40
Calculated year of birth: 1829
Place of burial: Worcester
Dedication: St George
County: Worcestershire
Notes:
Worcester St George
Denomination: Anglican
Coverage: 1834 - 1880
Number of entries 2,425
Record source: National Burial Index
Data provider: Birmingham and Midland Society for Genealogy and Heraldry
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Re: Astley? Warwickshire - Worcestershire?

Postby MarkCDodd » Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:09 am

I would guess this is Maria's baptism.

name: Maria Torrence
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 17 Jun 1827
baptism/christening place: SAINT PETER,WORCESTER,WORCESTER,ENGLAND
birth date:
birthplace:
death date:
name note:
race:
father's name: Emanuel Torrence
father's birthplace:
father's age:
mother's name: Susan
mother's birthplace:
mother's age:
indexing project (batch) number: C04391-1
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 916183, 916184, 916185
reference number:

And her family in 1841.

1841 census transcription details for: Park Street, St Peter, Worcester

National Archive Reference:
RG number: HO107
Piece: 1209
Book/Folio: 16/9
Page: 11
Reg. District: Worcester
Sub District: South Worcester
Parish: St Peter
Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough: Worcester
Address: Park Street, St Peter, Worcester
County: Worcestershire
Name Relation Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
TORRENCE, Emanuel M 30 1811 Worcestershire
TORRENCE, Susan F 35 1806 Worcestershire
TORRENCE, Elizabeth F 15 1826 Worcestershire
TORRENCE, Maria F 12 1829 Worcestershire
TORRENCE, Ann F 11 1830 Worcestershire
TORRENCE, Jane F 9 1832 Worcestershire
TORRENCE, George M 3 1838 Worcestershire
TORRENCE, Emma F 0 (5 months) 1841 Worcestershire
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Re: Astley? Warwickshire - Worcestershire?

Postby MarkCDodd » Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:21 am

Back to Ann.

What makes you think she is Ann Knott (Nott)?

Do you have some birth certificates?

If they married in 1837 then you should be able to find them in the 1841 census.

You would think there would be children born before 1842!

And there is....

name: Mabil Baker
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 29 Apr 1840
baptism/christening place: CLAINES,WORCESTER,ENGLAND
birth date:
birthplace:
death date:
name note:
race:
father's name: Joseph Baker
father's birthplace:
father's age:
mother's name: Ann
mother's birthplace:
mother's age:
indexing project (batch) number: P02137-2
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 352033
reference number:

Died after the 1841 census so should be able to find them....

Parish Records Collection 1538-2005 - Burial

First name(s): Mabel
Last name BAKER
Date of burial: 8 Jun 1843
Age at death: 3
Calculated year of birth: 1840
Place of burial: Worcester
Dedication: St George
County: Worcestershire
Notes:
Worcester St George
Denomination: Anglican
Coverage: 1834 - 1880
Number of entries 2,425
Record source: National Burial Index
Data provider: Birmingham and Midland Society for Genealogy and Heraldry
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Re: Astley? Warwickshire - Worcestershire?

Postby MarkCDodd » Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:22 am

Mabel was an important name to Joseph and Ann.

name: Mabel Baker
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 02 Feb 1845
baptism/christening place: CLAINES,WORCESTER,ENGLAND
birth date:
birthplace:
death date:
name note:
race:
father's name: Joseph Baker
father's birthplace:
father's age:
mother's name: Ann
mother's birthplace:
mother's age:
indexing project (batch) number: P02137-2
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 352033
reference number:

Parish Records Collection 1538-2005 - Burial

First name(s): Mabel
Last name BAKER
Date of burial: 22 Nov 1846
Age at death: 1
Calculated year of birth: 1845
Place of burial: Worcester
Dedication: St George
County: Worcestershire
Notes:
Worcester St George
Denomination: Anglican
Coverage: 1834 - 1880
Number of entries 2,425
Record source: National Burial Index
Data provider: Birmingham and Midland Society for Genealogy and Heraldry
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Re: Astley? Warwickshire - Worcestershire?

Postby MarkCDodd » Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:35 am

There is another Mabel with Joseph's parents and grand father in 1841.

That is the only Mabel Baker of that age I could find in 1841 but it is the Aunty (Joseph's young sister) of the one we want.

1841 census transcription details for: George Lane, St Mary, Lichfield

National Archive Reference:
RG number: HO107
Piece: 1008
Book/Folio: 2/16
Page: 25
Reg. District: Lichfield
Sub District: Lichfield
Parish: St Mary
Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough: Lichfield
Address: George Lane, St Mary, Lichfield
County: Staffordshire
Name Relation Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
WINSLOW, John M 80 1761
BAKER, Samuel M 46 1795 Staffordshire
BAKER, Elizabeth F 45 1796 Staffordshire
BAKER, Benjamin M 17 1824 Staffordshire
BAKER, Martha F 14 1827 Staffordshire
BAKER, John M 8 1833 Staffordshire
BAKER, Caroline F 6 1835 Staffordshire
BAKER, Mabel F 2 1839 Staffordshire
BAKER, Louisa F 1 1840 Staffordshire
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Re: Astley? Warwickshire - Worcestershire?

Postby MarkCDodd » Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:44 am

Finally, back to Ann again.

If she is Ann Nott then you have plenty to choose from.

Ann Nott

England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 03 Sep 1820 Old Swinford,​ Worcester,​ England
residence: Old Swinford,​ Worcester,​ England
parents: Benjamin Nott,​ Elizabeth


Ann Nott

England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 14 Feb 1820 Suckley,​ Worcester,​ England
residence: England
parents: William Nott,​ Elizabeth


Ann Nott

England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 03 Dec 1815 ST ANDREW,​WORCESTER,​WORCESTER,​ENGLAND
parents: Thomas Nott,​ Mary


Ann Nott

England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 20 Nov 1814 Oldswinford,​ Worcester,​ England
residence: Worcester,​ England
parents: George Nott,​ Marey Nott


Anne Nott

England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 08 May 1814 Martley,​ Worcester,​ England
residence: Worcester,​ England
parents: William Nott,​ Sucey Nott
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Re: Astley? Warwickshire - Worcestershire?

Postby descartes46 » Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:29 am

MarkCDodd wrote:Back to Ann.

What makes you think she is Ann Knott (Nott)?

Do you have some birth certificates?



Hi Mark, thanks so much for all the information! It's solved a family mystery. We've never been able to work out what was going on with the Ann/Marie situation! Now I can update the family tree with their dates of death and Joseph and Marie's wedding date. Super! Thank you :)

As to Ann being Ann Knott (Nott)... Yes, I certainly did manage to get hold of two of her children's birth certificates and this was the recorded maiden name. And then I began a hunt for a 'Ann Knott & Joseph BAKER' marriage and the only marriage in the right time frame was:

1837 Oct Age: 22 Marriage to Ann Nott, Upton on severn, Worcestershire
England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1915

The copy of this marriage record was so poor I couldn't deduce anything from it but I thought it was a fairly safe bet.
Darren
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