ARC TBC.......William Toy b abt 1796 Death record.

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ARC TBC.......William Toy b abt 1796 Death record.

Postby NickToye » Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:34 pm

Hi,

I am back on the trail of researching my family history again, and this time I am looking to write chapter and verse on all that I find. I'm starting from the earliest member of my tree and gathering as much details as I possibly can. As this is the 1st William in my tree, I am referring to him as William 1st. :)

Ok, what I am stuck on is his actual death record. Now I have researched through ancestry, and this is what I know:

Death before 1871

William 1st doesn't appear on the 1871 census with Sarah Toy, she is living alone, and her condition of marriage is Widow.

Possible Death record:

William Toy
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1788
Date of reg: Jan-Feb-Mar 1871
Age at death: 83
Registration district: Stourbridge
Inferred county: Worcestershire

There is clearly a discrepency in the age here, as William was 68 according to the 1871 census, and thus would have been 78 in 1871. This opposes the evidence.

The census was taken on 2nd April 1871, so if this is William 1st, then he would have been dead before the census took place, this supports the evidence.

There doesn't seem to be anymore William Toy's born in Worcestershire around 1788 (+/- 5 years).

According to the census records William 1st age could be:

1841 - 45
age could have been 45 - 49 as ages were rounded down so his DOB could have been between 1792 - 1796. This is still 4 years out from his Estimated Birth year of 1788 on the death record.

1851 - 60 (5 years older then expected)
1861 - 68 (2 years younger than expected)

I'm leaning towards accepting that this is in fact the actual death record of William 1st.


Does anyone believe that I may be wrong in assuming that this is the actual death record of my William 1st? Even though the estimated age at death is not accurate.
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Re: William Toy b abt 1796 Death record.

Postby linell » Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:39 am

You need to send for the death certificate Nick, see if the details match up with where his wife was living in 1871, see who the informant was, as for the age, whoever registered the death probably didn't know Wm's age, just a guess mate, William probably wasn't sure how old he was either, time wasn't an issue back then as it is today, most of our ancestors were illiterate a lot of of them probably didn't know exactly when they were born. Linell.
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Re: William Toy b abt 1796 Death record.

Postby NickToye » Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:50 am

Ok, so although it looks likely, a death certificate is the only sure way of knowing either way?
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Re: William Toy b abt 1796 Death record.

Postby linell » Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:42 am

NickToye wrote:Ok, so although it looks likely, a death certificate is the only sure way of knowing either way?


Yes that's correct, the address and any other details have to match up.

Linell.
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Re: William Toy b abt 1796 Death record.

Postby Northern Lass » Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:19 am

so it is this one
http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tr ... i=28293610

the census would be useful to add to bcc if anyone can post.

did you ever find a bapt?
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Re: William Toy b abt 1796 Death record.

Postby NickToye » Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:45 pm

I'm guessing it is that one - but I can't be certain 100%.

In the new year I am going to try and get a death certificate. Am I able to get it cheaper than ancestry? they charge around £20+

I also haven't found a bapt as yet. I have a feeling my family were non-conformists, so not likely to have been baptised, but again I can't be sure.

Nick
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Re: William Toy b abt 1796 Death record.

Postby Northern Lass » Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:11 pm

NickToye wrote:I'm guessing it is that one - but I can't be certain 100%.

In the new year I am going to try and get a death certificate. Am I able to get it cheaper than ancestry? they charge around £20+

I also haven't found a bapt as yet. I have a feeling my family were non-conformists, so not likely to have been baptised, but again I can't be sure.

Nick


order your certifs thru the local regis offices usually about £9 or the Gro £9.25

so if this is the one you want...
Possible Death record:

William Toy
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1788
Date of reg: Jan-Feb-Mar 1871
Age at death: 83
Registration district: Stourbridge
Inferred county: Worcestershire

send them a letter saying you only want this one if age 83 at death

1871
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Reference
TOY William Halesowen Dudley Register Office HAL/015/466

click on ref no

http://www.westmidlandsbmd.org.uk/cgi/p ... 73&area=DY
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Re: William Toy b abt 1796 Death record.

Postby NickToye » Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:20 pm

Click on ref no?

I take it I just print that off and post?
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Re: William Toy b abt 1796 Death record.

Postby Northern Lass » Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:02 pm

NickToye wrote:Click on ref no?

I take it I just print that off and post?


YOu will find a ref no on the wmbsgh site

http://www.bmsgh.org/


scroll down
click on west midlands bmd left hand side

http://www.westmidlandsbmd.org.uk/

select deaths from tabs at top
http://www.westmidlandsbmd.org.uk/deaths.php

Click on search death indexes
http://www.westmidlandsbmd.org.uk/cgi/d ... stmidlands

click on search by name
http://www.westmidlandsbmd.org.uk/cgi/d ... ds#surname


then put in that year you want
and name


West Midlands Death indexes for the years: 1871
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Reference
TOY William Halesowen Dudley Register Office HAL/015/466

click on ref no at end eg HAL/015/466
http://www.ukbmdsearch.org.uk/certapp.p ... c%2d&lang=

then again on ref no you will get form to print off and send off
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Re: William Toy b abt 1796 Death record.

Postby NickToye » Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:13 pm

thanks, I'll report back.
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Re: William Toy b abt 1796 Death record.

Postby Northern Lass » Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:43 am

NickToye wrote:thanks, I'll report back.


you can order on line too here...

https://forms.dudley.gov.uk/af/an/defau ... BivHnsLRcZ
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Re: William Toy b abt 1796 Death record.

Postby NickToye » Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:24 pm

Hi,

Ok I finally got around to getting the death certificate, which I have attached.

So it basically says on 23rd January 1871, William Toy of Crock Street, The Hill died. He was 83, his profession was a Nailer/Toolmaker. The cause of death was Old Age, it was natural decay and no medical attendant was present.

Under Signature, Description and Residence of Informant, I can't quite work out what the first line says, but I understand Sarah Toy and that she was present of the death in Crock Street, The Hill.

Also that it was registered on the same day, although I suspect that this may mean the death may not have been on 23rd, not entirely sure on the accuracy of these certificates. Also the signature of the registrar was a J.Smith? John Smith? Seems quite a popular name, although I could be being cynical, not that it matters.

So this certificate says William was 83, and therefore according to this record he was born 1788.

Also so as a side note, if I wanted to go back further with this line, what document would I need to verify parents? Marriage certificate? Did they have birth certificates in 1700s?

Thanks

Nick
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Re: William Toy b abt 1796 Death record.

Postby linell » Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:59 pm

No birth certificates before Civil Registration in 1837 Nick, you would have to find his Baptism and be sure that it was the correct Wm? The line regarding Sarah says, X The Mark of Sarah Toy (she would have been illiterate) so made her Mark. It is very feasible that the death and registration took place the same day. The age at death is often a guess-mate, as know one may have known exactly when Wm was born. Have a look on Family Search for a baptism, do you know if he always lived in The Hill area :?: Or you can search the Land Tax Occupiers at the Archives, they give the heads of household from about 1770 to 1830, but there again you need to know who you are looking for. His Marriage Certificate would have Witnesses but not parents names. HTH Linell.
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Re: William Toy b abt 1796 Death record.

Postby snoopysue » Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:05 pm

linell wrote:No birth certificates before Civil Registration in 1837 Nick, you would have to find his Baptism and be sure that it was the correct Wm? The line regarding Sarah says, X The Mark of Sarah Toy (she would have been illiterate) so made her Mark. It is very feasible that the death and registration took place the same day. The age at death is often a guess-mate, as know one may have known exactly when Wm was born. Have a look on Family Search for a baptism, do you know if he always lived in The Hill area :?: Or you can search the Land Tax Occupiers at the Archives, they give the heads of household from about 1770 to 1830, but there again you need to know who you are looking for. His Marriage Certificate would have Witnesses but not parents names. HTH Linell.


I agree about the date of death, sometimes relatives were very quick at registering. I don't know if they needed a death certificate before funeral could take place.
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Re: William Toy b abt 1796 Death record.

Postby NickToye » Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:15 pm

linell wrote:No birth certificates before Civil Registration in 1837 Nick, you would have to find his Baptism and be sure that it was the correct Wm? The line regarding Sarah says, X The Mark of Sarah Toy (she would have been illiterate) so made her Mark. It is very feasible that the death and registration took place the same day. The age at death is often a guess-mate, as know one may have known exactly when Wm was born. Have a look on Family Search for a baptism, do you know if he always lived in The Hill area :?: Or you can search the Land Tax Occupiers at the Archives, they give the heads of household from about 1770 to 1830, but there again you need to know who you are looking for. His Marriage Certificate would have Witnesses but not parents names. HTH Linell.


Thanks,

Ok, I have looked on Ancestry for Baptisms, and I get the impression that my family were not conformists. It certainly the case now and as far as I know my family were never religious.

You say the Land Tax Occupiers at the Archives? is this in Dudley?
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